Mass Shootings In American Gay Club Orlando

[Lips_Pearls]

Afternoon all,
Sad news again today. Have you seen it?
A Florida Gay club has been subjected to a mass shooting killing at least 20 innocent club goers, and a minimum of 43 are in hospital receiving treatment for gunshot wounds etc.

The attack was made by a man using an assault rifle, and he was also carrying a handgun and other devices - one device quite possibly a suicide vest.
The police at the scene said the gunman is apparently leaning towards Radical Islamist ideologies.

I heard it on the news this morning and instantly thought of two things.
1, Radical Islam
and
2, When are the US (with all due respect) going to sort their gun laws out?

I feel for all the victims and relatives of the victims..
Source;
Florida Pulse gay club attacked in Orlando - at least 20 dead - BBC News

I can't help but feel that whilst this may possibly have been a terrorist attack of course, but when are the US going to sort out their gun laws and manage all the accessibility and ease of access to weapons over there? and I mean that with the utmost respect to those across the pond and to members here from America...

You can readily buy assault rifles, grenade launchers, sniper rifles, and serious weaponry which let's face it, should be left to military use only.

 

[Lips_Pearls]

I did see this this morning and hadnt heard there was a confirmed death toll yet poor buggers why does having a night out have to end like this! It was also only 4 miles from where the singer from The voice was gunned down the day before.

From what ive heard gun regulations are coming up at congress soon to be discussed and amendments made, there is far too much available for people to get, ok things like grenades, suppressors etc do need etc checks and longer waiting times but just because someone passes those doesnt mean they havent had a mental break down and going to go on a rampage!

Yes sadly and she was trying to 'hug' the killer the moment he killed her
Indeed why should a night out end up with dead people. It's so wrong...

They are still fighting it in congress but from my understanding there is such a strong advocacy in the pro guns campaign, they have serious competition.
The citizens see it as their right to bear arms due to the 2nd amendment of their constitution.
Perhaps @ken_and_tigs or @Wolverpool (though Canadian) can share a bit more light.. But I think they need to consider things here.
So many people dead again, and for what?
Very sad.

Of course, if radical Islam, the world was a safer place with Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi around. Specifically the M.E and that's a crazy notion but true.

 

[Scrunchy&Muffet]

Its a disgrace. Needless violence and deaths in the name of religion. Its about time it was stopped and yep the gun laws do need addressing in the usa. Its far too easy to obtain a lethal weapon. I just feel for the familes of those killed and hurt. Xxxxx

 

[Deleted member 1402]

I haven't seen this yet, but it's shocking.
If a law was passed that they weren't allowed any guns, what would they do with the millions that already own them?

 

[Lips_Pearls]

I haven't seen this yet, but it's shocking.
If a law was passed that they weren't allowed any guns, what would they do with the millions that already own them?

This is one of the biggest questions.
Did you know there is more ammo than weapons in America..The gun culture there is appalling. Shotguns, assault rifles, grenades, damn even requests for hollow point rounds are regularly made there. It's not right.

I'm not saying this is the culprit for this tragic event, but surely it's a contributing factor.
My friend @Vex I am sure you will have some thoughts on this too bro..

 

[Deleted member 1402]

This is one of the biggest questions.
Did you know there is more ammo than weapons in America..The gun culture there is appalling. Shotguns, assault rifles, grenades, damn even requests for hollow point rounds are regularly made there. It's not right.

I'm not saying this is the culprit for this tragic event, but surely it's a contributing factor.
My friend @Vex I am sure you will have some thoughts on this too bro..

Yea seen some odd documentaries.

 

[Lovernotfighter]

Yeah this is a sad day for all the victims, families and friends. Sadly this sort of thing is shocking common in the USA, not long ago I was talking with a friend out there who said it works out at about one mass shooting a week, and he doesn't see the gun laws being sorted out anytime soon.

 

[Deleted member 1030]

It makes no odds whether the gunman was a radical Islamist, a white power survivalist or some anti-gay nutter, it will still be a terrorist attack. The US need to get their heads out of their arses and get rid of the ease of access to such horrific weaponry.

 

[Marcus]

It's not the gun that kills people it's the person pulling the trigger, mankind can't just live together , properly to much to ask

 

[Deleted member 1030]

It's not the gun that kills people it's the person pulling the trigger, mankind can't just live together , properly to much to ask

Hmmm... maybe, but I'm doing a trigger-pulling action at this very moment - and nobody's dying.

I, of course, can't buy a gun from Asda

 

[Lips_Pearls]

Hmmm... maybe, but I'm doing a trigger-pulling action at this very moment - and nobody's dying.

I, of course, can't buy a gun from Asda

This...
It does not help with the sheer accessibility of weapons.
I have used many light and heavy rifles/assault rifles plus other weapons. They are powerful and deadly. Simply put, weapons like this should not be allowed in civvy street and in utter madness, they are allowed. Crazy.. 2nd Amendment needs to get with the times. It's 2016 not 1816.

 

[Lips_Pearls]

Oh dear the death toll has gone up to 50 with 53 injured and apparently the shooter was a homophobe who got upset seeing gay men kiss!

Oh my God....
Well it would make 'sense' being a gay club. Unreal..
Afghan origin the gunman was.

 

[Deleted member 1030]

Now classed as the worse mass shooting in america due to death toll!
Yup he was which is why it was thought it was terrorism at first but then again a lot from there are taught that being gay is a sin

Yes, it's becoming a problem around the world (and, to some extent, in this country too). Russia, various African nations, an abundance of US states and many European countries where the governments are.... questionable, are adding fuel to the fire by declaring that you cannot love who you want to love.

 

[Deleted member 3870]

I have nothing to say. I'm just crying. Only just crying..

 

[Lovernotfighter]

Yes, it's becoming a problem around the world (and, to some extent, in this country too). Russia, various African nations, an abundance of US states and many European countries where the governments are.... questionable, are adding fuel to the fire by declaring that you cannot love who you want to love.

Agreed homophobia ddoes seem to be on the rise sometimes I feel like people are always searching for someone to blame and if you aren't a white christian hetrosexual male who is working a full time job then you're a target for blame.

 

[Deleted member 1030]

Agreed homophobia ddoes seem to be on the rise sometimes I feel like people are always searching for someone to blame and if you aren't a white christian hetrosexual male who is working a full time job then you're a target for blame.

True.

 

[Lips_Pearls]

Now classed as the worse mass shooting in america due to death toll!
Yup he was which is why it was thought it was terrorism at first but then again a lot from there are taught that being gay is a sin

Indeed... All in all very very sad. Shocking really. What a mess we're becoming.

Yes, it's becoming a problem around the world (and, to some extent, in this country too). Russia, various African nations, an abundance of US states and many European countries where the governments are.... questionable, are adding fuel to the fire by declaring that you cannot love who you want to love.

Agreed, Russia is awful for it. The police openly batter and persecute any gay/lesbian people on LGBT marches. Awful.. Exactly, you cannot love who you want to love. Terrible. Homophobia is a deep rooted hatred and completely unnecessary.. Education is what's needed.

Agreed homophobia ddoes seem to be on the rise sometimes I feel like people are always searching for someone to blame and if you aren't a white christian hetrosexual male who is working a full time job then you're a target for blame.

Yes very true sadly.

 

[Haitink]

Alas, those who make the laws in America are only too happy for the peasants to shoot each other up - they don't care. The Republican party is busy creating an underclass in order to provoke civil dissent: taking guns away effectively prevents armed insurrection and without armed insurrection the uber class has no excuse to shoot back, and more to the point they need insurrection to give them the excuse to repeal some of the more inconvenient amendments to the constitution.
What the heck do you think brexit is about - it is about overturning the more inconvenient human rights to allow the extreme right to further attack the poor and disabled. They really are not nice people.

 

[Deleted member 1030]

OK, folks... let's try to keep this thread about the terrible events in Orlando (I know, I know... I'm as guilty).

 

[Drac Morbis]

Yes, gun laws are crazy in the US. Even fucking so much as mention a ban on guns and people go insane. The problem is that it's in our Constitution: "The right to bare arms". I for one am very anti-gun. And to attack a club for gay people is even more despicable. Hope the fucker is dead or dies in prison.

 

[Drac Morbis]

Only a coward shoots up a bunch of helpless patrons with an assault rifle.

And people wonder why I'm a misanthrope....

 

[Deleted member 2978]

Guns have been the life blood of the USA for so long that it will be a major event to get the 2nd amendment modified or removed. From the Revolutionary war to the American Indian attacks on villages and towns and farms (Deerfield, MA is one example of the last one the Indians raided the town while the men were away and took women and children) thru the making of the wild west and OK Corral it has been seen a one of those rights in the bill of rights (the first 10 amendments to the constitution) which would never be changed. the bigger problem is not the legal access to weapons but the illegal purchase on the black market or thru criminals and then the modifying of these to allow automatic fire vs semiauto. I served in the USAF and carried a sidearm or an assault rifle thru out my career. I own 2 pistols which when I moved to the UK I left with my father along with a shotgun and a target rifle that I used for competition shooting when I was 14-15. these were always locked up and had trigger locks on them to prevent anyone from taking the weapon out and "playing with it" and killing a friend or family member. many feel that way I do, I follow the rules and laws, treat the guns as the weapons they are and handle them and treat them with the respect they are due. The issue comes from people who think playing with a gun is cool then shoot themselves in the foot or kill their sister or brother. I agree more needs to be done to prevent illegal sales and access plus preventing a person from following the rules waiting the 3 days for the purchasing a gun and then murdering someone who crossed them or made them mad. Even the police have problems with this as cops discharge their weapons due to the stress of the moment and then when interviewed afterwards can't explain why the shot the "alleged" criminal. I could go on and on about it but it won't change until the majority of the US takes a good look at the value of the amdenment and what it really was meant to do. It was meant to provide a ready source of citizens who were armed and trained in the use of a gun to be used in forming a militia.. something the US no longer needs as we have armed police, National guard and reserves and regular active Duty military to perform the duties of a Militia. It is a very sad event when a person uses a weapon to kill anyone... I don't hunt but those that due defend their right to have guns for hunting. When I lived in base housing I had to check my guns into the Base Police Armoury and it took 2 days before I could get them out. I tooka ltter to my commander saying I want to check out my personal gun. he 20 questioned me as to why then either signed or denyed permission. most times I checked them out to shoot in competitions on base or at local gun clubs. but they always had to be returned the next morning after the event was done..... I can ramble more but will end this. I you want to ask me question go ahead but for now I think enough has been said... RIP to those who lost their lives due to a terrosit and I hope those that have been wounded recover quickly (tho I know the emotional scars my take a lot longer than the physical ones) Be safe and take care and hug your loved ones every day (sorry this is so long)

 

[Haitink]

The right to bear arms is the right to form local militias. At that time guns were stocked in a central location and doled out as needed. And let's face it, it took 2 minutes to load the darn thing. A blanket ban is impossible - there are dangerous wild animals and in country areas: guns are needed; and hunting is a way of life. The country folk genuinely fear the Federal government and gun laws are seen as Federal interference. Finally, the gun manufacturers stand to lose billions in revenue if there is effective gun control, even enforcing the current laws is difficult if not impossible.
From a country that has had gun ownership restrictions since way back when, and has no man eating wild animals, it is difficult to grasp just how seminal gun ownership is. If you need an emotive example it is like our government banning ownership of cars. We all know we should give them up for the sake of our children's survival but would we? Hell no.

 

[Lips_Pearls]

Spoiler: Vex's post

Yes, gun laws are crazy in the US. Even fucking so much as mention a ban on guns and people go insane. The problem is that it's in our Constitution: "The right to bare arms". I for one am very anti-gun. And to attack a club for gay people is even more despicable. Hope the fucker is dead or dies in prison.

Only a coward shoots up a bunch of helpless patrons with an assault rifle.

And people wonder why I'm a misanthrope....

Spoiler: Ken&Tigs

Guns have been the life blood of the USA for so long that it will be a major event to get the 2nd amendment modified or removed. From the Revolutionary war to the American Indian attacks on villages and towns and farms (Deerfield, MA is one example of the last one the Indians raided the town while the men were away and took women and children) thru the making of the wild west and OK Corral it has been seen a one of those rights in the bill of rights (the first 10 amendments to the constitution) which would never be changed. the bigger problem is not the legal access to weapons but the illegal purchase on the black market or thru criminals and then the modifying of these to allow automatic fire vs semiauto. I served in the USAF and carried a sidearm or an assault rifle thru out my career. I own 2 pistols which when I moved to the UK I left with my father along with a shotgun and a target rifle that I used for competition shooting when I was 14-15. these were always locked up and had trigger locks on them to prevent anyone from taking the weapon out and "playing with it" and killing a friend or family member. many feel that way I do, I follow the rules and laws, treat the guns as the weapons they are and handle them and treat them with the respect they are due. The issue comes from people who think playing with a gun is cool then shoot themselves in the foot or kill their sister or brother. I agree more needs to be done to prevent illegal sales and access plus preventing a person from following the rules waiting the 3 days for the purchasing a gun and then murdering someone who crossed them or made them mad. Even the police have problems with this as cops discharge their weapons due to the stress of the moment and then when interviewed afterwards can't explain why the shot the "alleged" criminal. I could go on and on about it but it won't change until the majority of the US takes a good look at the value of the amdenment and what it really was meant to do. It was meant to provide a ready source of citizens who were armed and trained in the use of a gun to be used in forming a militia.. something the US no longer needs as we have armed police, National guard and reserves and regular active Duty military to perform the duties of a Militia. It is a very sad event when a person uses a weapon to kill anyone... I don't hunt but those that due defend their right to have guns for hunting. When I lived in base housing I had to check my guns into the Base Police Armoury and it took 2 days before I could get them out. I tooka ltter to my commander saying I want to check out my personal gun. he 20 questioned me as to why then either signed or denyed permission. most times I checked them out to shoot in competitions on base or at local gun clubs. but they always had to be returned the next morning after the event was done..... I can ramble more but will end this. I you want to ask me question go ahead but for now I think enough has been said... RIP to those who lost their lives due to a terrosit and I hope those that have been wounded recover quickly (tho I know the emotional scars my take a lot longer than the physical ones) Be safe and take care and hug your loved ones every day (sorry this is so long)

Spoiler: Haitink

The right to bear arms is the right to form local militias. At that time guns were stocked in a central location and doled out as needed. And let's face it, it took 2 minutes to load the darn thing. A blanket ban is impossible - there are dangerous wild animals and in country areas: guns are needed; and hunting is a way of life. The country folk genuinely fear the Federal government and gun laws are seen as Federal interference. Finally, the gun manufacturers stand to lose billions in revenue if there is effective gun control, even enforcing the current laws is difficult if not impossible.
From a country that has had gun ownership restrictions since way back when, and has no man eating wild animals, it is difficult to grasp just how seminal gun ownership is. If you need an emotive example it is like our government banning ownership of cars. We all know we should give them up for the sake of our children's survival but would we? Hell no.

Obviously these are potent messages and replies, and just quickly before adding anything else, as American members here I just want to say thank you for taking the time to reply and add your perspectives. It's appreciated.
@Haitink unsure if you are American but you show a tie of sorts to America so thank you too.

I've added spoilers to minimise the quote.

 

[Haitink]

Yes ken_and_tigs.

I have suggested that all gun owners are required to a) attend at their own dime a mandatory 2 week refresher course annually and 2) qualifies them to be called up at any time to support law enforcement. I agree 2) is downright dangerous but unless gun owners are forced to put themselves in harms way they will never understand the harm they do to others.
It might be worth reminding them weekly that actually carrying a gun makes them more likely to be shot: an amateur drawing a gun takes far too long and the attempt to draw marks them for killing. A number of police are often injured just after coming off leave as they are slower on the draw.
I remember squaddies during our Northern Ireland crisis hating to on leave because they knew the odds on being killed went up when they went back on duty.