New Age Feminism.

[Lips_Pearls]

Pearls here.... evening evening x

I’ve been having fun on a social media platform this evening, for believe it or not, Dancing On Ice. I love it.
Anyway, saw a post by Katie Hopkins, love her or hate her, and it made me reply and think about some things.
She posted this;
“Enough #InternationalWomensDay belly- rubbing bollards


What strong women need is a brilliant man. I am lucky.”
And I replied with;

I have a strong man and I am very lucky too. #LoveMyMan xx

So, I am a woman and love my man being my man. #NotAFeminist

I love my man to protect, be a gentleman and look after me in every way.
Such as open doors, walk on the left of me when on the pavements, pay bills, light my cigarettes (when I was smoking) and in return I love to wash his clothes, cook (when it’s not chicken ) massage his feet and make sure he’s my man. Get him a drink when he wants one. Run him a bath and wash his back.
That alone makes me feel empowered.
Gives me empowerment.

I feel empowered because I am looking after my man.
I don’t need to walk on the outside of the road. I don’t need my man to put a duster around the place and polish.
Empowerment is not about being one above. The empowerment here IS about having my man walk on the outside of me. It IS about having him do what he does, for me!
If I said no to any of these, he’d stop. That is empowerment.
Maybe the newer generation of women don’t have this from men anymore.
I’m not talking about gender pay gaps or anything else as women should be treated the same as anyone else. But being treated as a lady, by a gentleman - is within itself, empowerment.

I’ll be back on site soon, I promise. x

Love you all. Mwah xx

Now let the man walk on the outside and for fucks sake, let them buy you a meal.

Pearls xx

 

[Stew]

Why on earth women ever wanted equalities in the first place is beyond me!!

Why on Earth drag themselves down to our levels ???

 

[Deleted member 1030]

Katie Hopkins is vile, racist creature. That is all.

 

[fincon]

Katie Hopkins is vile, racist creature. That is all.

Yep. while I usually avoid any politics stuff on here - too easy both to upset and to get upset - I have to just throw a hell yeah to that observation.

 

[Lips_Pearls]

Katie Hopkins is vile, racist creature. That is all.

Yep. while I usually avoid any politics stuff on here - too easy both to upset and to get upset - I have to just throw a hell yeah to that observation.

Darlings, you’ve both ignored the point in hand.
Care to discuss? Xx

Oh and for the point, we or I don’t care about Katie Hopkins and we’re not racist. The point is not about her. It’s about what else I wrote.

 

[Deleted member 1030]

we or I don’t care about Katie Hopkins and we’re not racist

No, I know, I just can't stand that woman.

 

[fincon]

No, I know, I just can't stand that woman.

Same here.

As for what else you wrote, @Lips_Pearls, genuinely don’t know what I could add, esp since I’m not ‘with’ anyone, and haven’t been since… well, since before anyone had ever heard of Hatie Kopkins.

But I’m very wary about chipping in as a fella and commenting on feminism which has always - to me - meant treating women with respect; everything has flowed from that basic principle.

 

[Looby&Lew]

I suppose it depends on how you visualise feminism and what your particular set of circumstances are. For me Looby I have always worked full-time with the exception of when my children were small. I have contributed financially to the household but I have also made work sacrifices for my children which I would do all over again. However ours has been a shared household and my expectations are that housework etc is shared between us...doesn't always happen because of other commitments but we are a team and will continue to be. I'm not really bothered about the opening of doors or who walks where on the pavement although it is nice when that happens.
Having always worked and worked hard and done the same job every bit as good as my male counterparts I am glad to see that equal pay is happening for the most part. I'm not into the concept of every job men do women should do. It's horses for courses. If you can do the job great if not let someone who can do it. I work in a very male dominated environment where there are a few women who do the same role. Some are excellent at it and some are downright manipulative with men to get their own way or to be given special treatment. They do women a great disservice in my opinion. My particular job is male dominated because the thought processes involved are more compatible with the way men think as a generalisation.....not sure what that says about me but I don't really care either. I love my job and am proud of what I do. I am accepted and respected by my male colleagues. There are no allowances made for my gender and I'm good at what I do even if I do say so myself. Extreme feminism I can't get on with... sticking up for yourself and being treated equally a big thumbs up....being looked after and treated as a lady by a gentleman again a big thumbs up although if we split the bill or I pay that's fine too...am I a feminist? Probably not on balance x

 

[Stew]

I suppose it depends on how you visualise feminism and what your particular set of circumstances are. For me Looby I have always worked full-time with the exception of when my children were small. I have contributed financially to the household but I have also made work sacrifices for my children which I would do all over again. However ours has been a shared household and my expectations are that housework etc is shared between us...doesn't always happen because of other commitments but we are a team and will continue to be. I'm not really bothered about the opening of doors or who walks where on the pavement although it is nice when that happens.
Having always worked and worked hard and done the same job every bit as good as my male counterparts I am glad to see that equal pay is happening for the most part. I'm not into the concept of every job men do women should do. It's horses for courses. If you can do the job great if not let someone who can do it. I work in a very male dominated environment where there are a few women who do the same role. Some are excellent at it and some are downright manipulative with men to get their own way or to be given special treatment. They do women a great disservice in my opinion. My particular job is male dominated because the thought processes involved are more compatible with the way men think as a generalisation.....not sure what that says about me but I don't really care either. I love my job and am proud of what I do. I am accepted and respected by my male colleagues. There are no allowances made for my gender and I'm good at what I do even if I do say so myself. Extreme feminism I can't get on with... sticking up for yourself and being treated equally a big thumbs up....being looked after and treated as a lady by a gentleman again a big thumbs up although if we split the bill or I pay that's fine too...am I a feminist? Probably not on balance x

I’ve always said if the right person for the job is Male or female it’s not an issue , ability is not gender based !!!

Oh and well done you , true lady !

 

[Looby&Lew]

I’ve always said if the right person for the job is Male or female it’s not an issue , ability is not gender based !!!

Oh and well done you , true lady !

Thank you x

 

[Louise94]

Oh my, so much to say but how to say it? I won’t blame you for switching off halfway through.

First off, I think it’s important to recognise that this thread is discussing a heterosexual relationship with, I am assuming, cis-gender individuals. (I apologise if that isn’t the case and isn’t that revealing in itself that it’s my default assumption) as the experiences of those in different types of relationships and different gender identities will bring out different discussions relating to feminism which are equally valid and important.

Second, as within any movement, there are different ideologies, wings etc. Feminism is no different and whilst I describe myself as a feminist...maybe egalitarian is more accurate...it doesn’t mean that I agree with what comes out of every other feminist’s mouth. The important thing is that we continue having conversations.

“Enough #InternationalWomensDay belly- rubbing bollards

In our current climate, I don’t think there can ever be enough “belly-rubbing” and since when did women celebrating and uplifting other women become reduced to belly-rubbing? The visibility of women and women’s rights globally is still, I believe, way off the mark. I mean, just look who the supposed most powerful man in the world is. It’s necessary to have these days to keep refocusing attention, to aid discussion and to help with the drive for real and meaningful change.

What strong women need is a brilliant man. I am lucky.

No, a woman only needs a man if she wants one. Her worth is not defined by whether or not she has a man. Her strength is not defined by anyone but herself, not men, not other women, not society. Just as the brilliance of a man is defined by nobody but himself.

So, I am a woman and love my man being my man. #NotAFeminist

From your post, I see a woman who is a woman by her own definition loving a man who is a man by his own definition. If you think it’s right for everyone to have that freedom and exercise it fully then I believe you are #DefinitelyAFeminist
xxx

You have defined how you want to be treated. A man, our society hasn’t done it for you. You created it the way you wanted it to be which is something everyone should have the right to do.

I love my man to protect, be a gentleman and look after me in every way.
Such as open doors, walk on the left of me when on the pavements, pay bills, light my cigarettes

I love that you love these things. You’re not any less a feminist for loving and living those things.

Personally, and this is just me, I like those things but I am very conscious of not subscribing to gender roles, there’s a rigidity to them that makes me uncomfortable. I’m the kind of person who looks at the decisions I make and questions why I do...are there larger forces that have steered my decisions or do I feel as though I’m making them autonomously? Am I subscribing to social norms or ways of doing things consciously or unconsciously?
If it’s unconscious then I want to challenge it which is what feminism does. It challenges the default setting and pushes for equal options...for both parties. Feminism can benefit men too.

Maybe the newer generation of women don’t have this from men anymore.

I hope that the newer of generation of women recognise empowerment can look different for each individual and the way it looks to you doesn’t make you and more or less valid than anyone else.
If they want that from men who genuinely want to provide it, rather than feel they are obligated to, then that is empowering to both parties, without a doubt.

Now let the man walk on the outside and for fucks sake, let them buy you a meal.

Ohh, alright! But only if I can walk on the outside and buy the meal next time.

xxx

 

[Deleted member 1030]

Oh my, so much to say but how to say it? I won’t blame you for switching off halfway through.

First off, I think it’s important to recognise that this thread is discussing a heterosexual relationship with, I am assuming, cis-gender individuals. (I apologise if that isn’t the case and isn’t that revealing in itself that it’s my default assumption) as the experiences of those in different types of relationships and different gender identities will bring out different discussions relating to feminism which are equally valid and important.

Second, as within any movement, there are different ideologies, wings etc. Feminism is no different and whilst I describe myself as a feminist...maybe egalitarian is more accurate...it doesn’t mean that I agree with what comes out of every other feminist’s mouth. The important thing is that we continue having conversations.



In our current climate, I don’t think there can ever be enough “belly-rubbing” and since when did women celebrating and uplifting other women become reduced to belly-rubbing? The visibility of women and women’s rights globally is still, I believe, way off the mark. I mean, just look who the supposed most powerful man in the world is. It’s necessary to have these days to keep refocusing attention, to aid discussion and to help with the drive for real and meaningful change.



No, a woman only needs a man if she wants one. Her worth is not defined by whether or not she has a man. Her strength is not defined by anyone but herself, not men, not other women, not society. Just as the brilliance of a man is defined by nobody but himself.



From your post, I see a woman who is a woman by her own definition loving a man who is a man by his own definition. If you think it’s right for everyone to have that freedom and exercise it fully then I believe you are #DefinitelyAFeminist
xxx

You have defined how you want to be treated. A man, our society hasn’t done it for you. You created it the way you wanted it to be which is something everyone should have the right to do.



I love that you love these things. You’re not any less a feminist for loving and living those things.

Personally, and this is just me, I like those things but I am very conscious of not subscribing to gender roles, there’s a rigidity to them that makes me uncomfortable. I’m the kind of person who looks at the decisions I make and questions why I do...are there larger forces that have steered my decisions or do I feel as though I’m making them autonomously? Am I subscribing to social norms or ways of doing things consciously or unconsciously?
If it’s unconscious then I want to challenge it which is what feminism does. It challenges the default setting and pushes for equal options...for both parties. Feminism can benefit men too.



I hope that the newer of generation of women recognise empowerment can look different for each individual and the way it looks to you doesn’t make you and more or less valid than anyone else.
If they want that from men who genuinely want to provide it, rather than feel they are obligated to, then that is empowering to both parties, without a doubt.



Ohh, alright! But only if I can walk on the outside and buy the meal next time.

xxx

Brilliant post

 

[Louise94]

Brilliant post

Thank you - I’ve got off me soapbox now. Xxx

 

[Deleted member 1030]

Thank you - I’ve got off me soapbox now. Xxx

It's certainly how I look at it, that feminism (which, in itself, is a nebulous concept) is all about choice and the right to be able to choose. Yes, there's many self-proclaimed feminists that I vehemently disagree with (not least on the subject of trans rights) and other women that don't recognise feminism but take full advantage of it - I had this discussion with my sister, last week. She said she hates feminists but has the best paid job in the family, is in the process of buying her house with her own money and has managed to bring up two boys, mostly on her own.
A feminist doesn't have to wear dungarees. She can choose to, though

 

[Louise94]

Yes, there's many self-proclaimed feminists that I vehemently disagree with (not least on the subject of trans rights)

As I was writing my response I was having a little look at feminism and trans rights and it really exposed my own privilege. As a cis-woman I don’t have to think about so many things as I’m unaffected by them, definitely need to change that, I’ve been resting on my laurels.

But yes, I found a lot to disagree with too! From my very brief look over some literature, some feminists seem to fear that it would erode or negate women’s rights.
To me, that seems ridiculous. We rise together. We are only truly free when everyone is free.

Xxx

 

[The-Gent]

Mans place is to make sure you Ladies are as Happy as possible thats why we are here lol xxxx

 

[Stew]

Oh my, so much to say but how to say it? I won’t blame you for switching off halfway through.

First off, I think it’s important to recognise that this thread is discussing a heterosexual relationship with, I am assuming, cis-gender individuals. (I apologise if that isn’t the case and isn’t that revealing in itself that it’s my default assumption) as the experiences of those in different types of relationships and different gender identities will bring out different discussions relating to feminism which are equally valid and important.

Second, as within any movement, there are different ideologies, wings etc. Feminism is no different and whilst I describe myself as a feminist...maybe egalitarian is more accurate...it doesn’t mean that I agree with what comes out of every other feminist’s mouth. The important thing is that we continue having conversations.



In our current climate, I don’t think there can ever be enough “belly-rubbing” and since when did women celebrating and uplifting other women become reduced to belly-rubbing? The visibility of women and women’s rights globally is still, I believe, way off the mark. I mean, just look who the supposed most powerful man in the world is. It’s necessary to have these days to keep refocusing attention, to aid discussion and to help with the drive for real and meaningful change.



No, a woman only needs a man if she wants one. Her worth is not defined by whether or not she has a man. Her strength is not defined by anyone but herself, not men, not other women, not society. Just as the brilliance of a man is defined by nobody but himself.



From your post, I see a woman who is a woman by her own definition loving a man who is a man by his own definition. If you think it’s right for everyone to have that freedom and exercise it fully then I believe you are #DefinitelyAFeminist
xxx

You have defined how you want to be treated. A man, our society hasn’t done it for you. You created it the way you wanted it to be which is something everyone should have the right to do.



I love that you love these things. You’re not any less a feminist for loving and living those things.

Personally, and this is just me, I like those things but I am very conscious of not subscribing to gender roles, there’s a rigidity to them that makes me uncomfortable. I’m the kind of person who looks at the decisions I make and questions why I do...are there larger forces that have steered my decisions or do I feel as though I’m making them autonomously? Am I subscribing to social norms or ways of doing things consciously or unconsciously?
If it’s unconscious then I want to challenge it which is what feminism does. It challenges the default setting and pushes for equal options...for both parties. Feminism can benefit men too.



I hope that the newer of generation of women recognise empowerment can look different for each individual and the way it looks to you doesn’t make you and more or less valid than anyone else.
If they want that from men who genuinely want to provide it, rather than feel they are obligated to, then that is empowering to both parties, without a doubt.



Ohh, alright! But only if I can walk on the outside and buy the meal next time.

xxx

Wow that’s certainly got your motor running what an inciteful well written post !

 

[Deleted member 1030]

We are only truly free when everyone is free.

Precisely
Shameless plug for my own article

 

[Deleted member 6127]

Oh bring back the Hollywood glamour days when men wore their women like trophies on their arms, and called them darling, and treated them as fragile flowers as anything other than baking made them faint
I was born in the wrong era Cxxx

 

[Stew]

Oh bring back the Hollywood glamour days when men wore their women like trophies on their arms, and called them darling, and treated them as fragile flowers as anything other than baking made them faint
I was born in the wrong era Cxxx

Swoon my dear swoon a lady would never merely faint !! X

 

[Leonidas480]

Oh my, so much to say but how to say it? I won’t blame you for switching off halfway through.

First off, I think it’s important to recognise that this thread is discussing a heterosexual relationship with, I am assuming, cis-gender individuals. (I apologise if that isn’t the case and isn’t that revealing in itself that it’s my default assumption) as the experiences of those in different types of relationships and different gender identities will bring out different discussions relating to feminism which are equally valid and important.

Second, as within any movement, there are different ideologies, wings etc. Feminism is no different and whilst I describe myself as a feminist...maybe egalitarian is more accurate...it doesn’t mean that I agree with what comes out of every other feminist’s mouth. The important thing is that we continue having conversations.



In our current climate, I don’t think there can ever be enough “belly-rubbing” and since when did women celebrating and uplifting other women become reduced to belly-rubbing? The visibility of women and women’s rights globally is still, I believe, way off the mark. I mean, just look who the supposed most powerful man in the world is. It’s necessary to have these days to keep refocusing attention, to aid discussion and to help with the drive for real and meaningful change.



No, a woman only needs a man if she wants one. Her worth is not defined by whether or not she has a man. Her strength is not defined by anyone but herself, not men, not other women, not society. Just as the brilliance of a man is defined by nobody but himself.



From your post, I see a woman who is a woman by her own definition loving a man who is a man by his own definition. If you think it’s right for everyone to have that freedom and exercise it fully then I believe you are #DefinitelyAFeminist
xxx

You have defined how you want to be treated. A man, our society hasn’t done it for you. You created it the way you wanted it to be which is something everyone should have the right to do.



I love that you love these things. You’re not any less a feminist for loving and living those things.

Personally, and this is just me, I like those things but I am very conscious of not subscribing to gender roles, there’s a rigidity to them that makes me uncomfortable. I’m the kind of person who looks at the decisions I make and questions why I do...are there larger forces that have steered my decisions or do I feel as though I’m making them autonomously? Am I subscribing to social norms or ways of doing things consciously or unconsciously?
If it’s unconscious then I want to challenge it which is what feminism does. It challenges the default setting and pushes for equal options...for both parties. Feminism can benefit men too.



I hope that the newer of generation of women recognise empowerment can look different for each individual and the way it looks to you doesn’t make you and more or less valid than anyone else.
If they want that from men who genuinely want to provide it, rather than feel they are obligated to, then that is empowering to both parties, without a doubt.



Ohh, alright! But only if I can walk on the outside and buy the meal next time.

xxx

Feeling well-informed after reading that excellent post! For me, in a nutshell, it's about freedom of choice and opportunity. This will having different meaning for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 11094]

Really good post @Louise94 , and insights from others too.


Pearls, I think it is beautiful that you feel empowerment from living your life in that way, and that the relationship really works for both of your wants and needs. It is all consensual, and that is so important.

When something is enforced onto someone and it is not consensual, that is when there are issues. Not all women are the same, and not all men are the same. And beyond this, there are different genders and self-identification but that isn’t what I am looking at right now. Traditional gender roles do not suit everyone, this has been the case from the beginning of time. Because we are so much more than our sex or gender, we are individuals with our own authentic energy.

I feel in this discussion the focus is more about our views on relationships between men and women and gender roles.


If we take your example Pearls, in a heterosexual cis-gendered relationship it should also be okay for a man to want to be that person to a woman. For example, if a man wants to do the cleaning, the cooking, and to look after his woman in the same way you look after your man, and in-turn look after each other - That should be acceptable. The difference is, men get a significantly different reaction from the world around them if they take on any role that doesn’t fit into the general norm of being a man. That is, not fitting into the gender norms of our culture and traditions. The reactions from others can often be negative and specifically attacking the person’s masculinity or his identity as a man. They can be referred to as weak, not ‘real men’, pussies, and many more things. These reactions may not even be spoken about, they may go on silently in the mind, men and women may view that man as 'less of man' simply because he is living a life that doesn't fit into a box created by the social norms around us.

(If people want to look into feminism, there is so much out there. I have a 5,000 essay on it from my social welfare course. It isn’t a colourful read, mostly research and stats, so do not recommend. You might die of boredom. So, can't cover it all here but if people want more there is so much more out there, as this topic is vast)

Also have a research essay about our societies and the epidemic of male suicide and male violence. This focuses on how society and early socialisation are damaging children by enforcing rules onto to them based on their gender. For example, even though all children have the same emotional needs, often boys are told to suppress crying and showing of emotion when they reach 7/8 years old, due to the set of norms we have around us. This is damaging to the child’s development and has consequences later in life. Our social norms also influence adults, and there are lots of interesting and eye opening studies into this, especially when looking into suicide epidemic in men (UK).

Back to the original post. I am not into national-anything days. There are now loads, and more are created every year. Whether they are comedic or serious. They are there to highlight something. Things like black history month have real purpose here in the west, because of the dark side of our history and lack of representation.

The statement about "what a strong woman needs is a brilliant man", that's fine yes. But not all women want a man, and not all men want women. This isn't to do with identifying as a feminist or not. I think what katie hopkins is saying, is that this is aimed at those radical extreme people who call themselves feminists. Who are often depicted as man-hating. It has nothing to do with feminism and the theories and research within this field. I agree with what @Louise94 said, and she explains it very well.

In the relationships I've had, there have been a mixture of different dynamics. All I want is for my partner to be happy in their own skin. My issue is that I have had partners that are questioned, verbally abused, and not supported by others. Simply because they are being themselves. My boyfriend was called feminine, and even people I knew would say 'why the hell am I with a man that is not manly', 'not tall', 'quiet and sensitive', etc. This included friends and family. I was told I needed a big strong man who could treat me like a princess. I don't want to be a fucking princess, I am not a princess, and I want to be with someone I love and they love me, regardless of their gender. Yes, I had a brilliant man, in my eyes he was beautiful, but I want the world around me to accept people for who they are and not try to fit them into a box. I would want my man to be whoever the hell he feels comfortable with being. Same goes for a woman, or any partner/partners.
When I would hold hands in public with my Gf, we could get verbally abused. It didn't matter where we were, someone would always say something, and the worst case was from a group of boys in cardiff queen street. I also see the same happen when two men hold hands, or people who are trans or non-binary. It was the same around 50 years back (and less) when a black person and a white person were dating. We have moved on slightly, but not enough to make sure every person feels safe. That is why there are social movements, because this world isn't always kind to those that don't fit the norm, and movements are there to change that. It is not about dividing people, it is about bringing people together. It is about understanding that the real shit-bags are the ones at the top who want nothing to change. They want division, distraction, and fear/outrage, because that means they get to stay up there with all the money and power, whilst we fight about stupid things down here, and end up blaming the poor and minorities. Or blaming the things that are actually there to help us.

 

[Leonidas480]

Really good post @Louise94 , and insights from others too.


Pearls, I think it is beautiful that you feel empowerment from living your life in that way, and that the relationship really works for both of your wants and needs. It is all consensual, and that is so important.

When something is enforced onto someone and it is not consensual, that is when there are issues. Not all women are the same, and not all men are the same. And beyond this, there are different genders and self-identification but that isn’t what I am looking at right now. Traditional gender roles do not suit everyone, this has been the case from the beginning of time. Because we are so much more than our sex or gender, we are individuals with our own authentic energy.

I feel in this discussion the focus is more about our views on relationships between men and women and gender roles.


If we take your example Pearls, in a heterosexual cis-gendered relationship it should also be okay for a man to want to be that person to a woman. For example, if a man wants to do the cleaning, the cooking, and to look after his woman in the same way you look after your man, and in-turn look after each other - That should be acceptable. The difference is, men get a significantly different reaction from the world around them if they take on any role that doesn’t fit into the general norm of being a man. That is, not fitting into the gender norms of our culture and traditions. The reactions from others can often be negative and specifically attacking the person’s masculinity or his identity as a man. They can be referred to as weak, not ‘real men’, pussies, and many more things. These reactions may not even be spoken about, they may go on silently in the mind, men and women may view that man as 'less of man' simply because he is living a life that doesn't fit into a box created by the social norms around us.

(If people want to look into feminism, there is so much out there. I have a 5,000 essay on it from my social welfare course. It isn’t a colourful read, mostly research and stats, so do not recommend. You might die of boredom. So, can't cover it all here but if people want more there is so much more out there, as this topic is vast)

Also have a research essay about our societies and the epidemic of male suicide and male violence. This focuses on how society and early socialisation are damaging children by enforcing rules onto to them based on their gender. For example, even though all children have the same emotional needs, often boys are told to suppress crying and showing of emotion when they reach 7/8 years old, due to the set of norms we have around us. This is damaging to the child’s development and has consequences later in life. Our social norms also influence adults, and there are lots of interesting and eye opening studies into this, especially when looking into suicide epidemic in men (UK).

Back to the original post. I am not into national-anything days. There are now loads, and more are created every year. Whether they are comedic or serious. They are there to highlight something. Things like black history month have real purpose here in the west, because of the dark side of our history and lack of representation.

The statement about "what a strong woman needs is a brilliant man", that's fine yes. But not all women want a man, and not all men want women. This isn't to do with identifying as a feminist or not. I think what katie hopkins is saying, is that this is aimed at those radical extreme people who call themselves feminists. Who are often depicted as man-hating. It has nothing to do with feminism and the theories and research within this field. I agree with what @Louise94 said, and she explains it very well.

In the relationships I've had, there have been a mixture of different dynamics. All I want is for my partner to be happy in their own skin. My issue is that I have had partners that are questioned, verbally abused, and not supported by others. Simply because they are being themselves. My boyfriend was called feminine, and even people I knew would say 'why the hell am I with a man that is not manly', 'not tall', 'quiet and sensitive', etc. This included friends and family. I was told I needed a big strong man who could treat me like a princess. I don't want to be a fucking princess, I am not a princess, and I want to be with someone I love and they love me, regardless of their gender. Yes, I had a brilliant man, in my eyes he was beautiful, but I want the world around me to accept people for who they are and not try to fit them into a box. I would want my man to be whoever the hell he feels comfortable with being. Same goes for a woman, or any partner/partners.
When I would hold hands in public with my Gf, we could get verbally abused. It didn't matter where we were, someone would always say something, and the worst case was from a group of boys in cardiff queen street. I also see the same happen when two men hold hands, or people who are trans or non-binary. It was the same around 50 years back (and less) when a black person and a white person were dating. We have moved on slightly, but not enough to make sure every person feels safe. That is why there are social movements, because this world isn't always kind to those that don't fit the norm, and movements are there to change that. It is not about dividing people, it is about bringing people together. It is about understanding that the real shit-bags are the ones at the top who want nothing to change. They want division, distraction, and fear/outrage, because that means they get to stay up there with all the money and power, whilst we fight about stupid things down here, and end up blaming the poor and minorities. Or blaming the things that are actually there to help us.

Another fabulous post on this topic. Thank you @WolfieGray, your post is very informative but also full of empathy. It's a fascinating and vast topic that starts with gender roles and quickly expands to cover things lots of people don't consider.

 

[Lips_Pearls]

Hmm. Although there have been truly super posts made in response to the OP - I also feel that the main point has also been lost a little, due to the complexities of some of the replies... and replies to those.
With that I mean as much as, if anything - it’s taken from the viewpoint of looking at the far extremism of feminism and activists thereof.
It’s most certainly also not written in a context of ‘men should be men, strong and for their women’ cringe type way.
I think the point that was being made is more a case of why shouldn't women enjoy being not only treated as an equal, but also the fact that there is nothing wrong in making sure you look after who you love - and more to the point, that it's okay for them to accept you doing so as a result too!
Will definitely come back to this though. x

 

[GeoffRy]

So many posts on this thread that I want to quote and compliment!
It's such a shame that considering how liberal & all-inclusive our society claims to be these days, that this discussion is a conversational hand-grenade (chuck it in & run for your life!) in most situations, even with your closest friends. Some of those closest to us have such wildly differing views on what's an acceptable view that topics such as this (and... dun-dun-duunnnn... politics!!!!) are no-go in order to avoid an argument.
Back to topic though... In the early stages of our relationship (I was still a teen) I actually had an argument with Geoff's mum, accusing her of being sexist & having an archaic view of gender roles. She dared to suggest that I should cook dinner when he gets home from work, & maybe spend more time tidying! How dare she! He got BJ's regularly, on top of my other bedroom skills, WTF should I cook?
BUT, I was a stroppy, hormonal teen and cared more about myself than I did about anything else, so wouldnt listen.
Now though, I have grown and learned so much. I hate labels. If I was to go by dictionary definitions, I would have to say we are both "cis-gendered". I take full advantage of my womanly ways if and when required and also make the most of his alpha-male status in our household. But it's not because he is a man, it's just that he happened to be the person I fell in love with and chose to spend my life with. If I was with a woman (which I most likely would be if I hadn't found him) I would still use my feminine attributes when/if required. I do get a certain sense of power when I wear matching sexy undies under my work clothes, and my confidence improves if I paint my face on. When it comes to roles, though, I now see that we are equals. We are partners in life. I work full time for the first time since I was 19 as our kids have grown, and we both clean (occasionally) and wash dishes, we both make romantic gestures like silly surprise gifts, running a bubble bath or cooking a special meal "just because", and most importantly, we have each others back when things get tough. I see no roles, just sharing and enjoying each other.
XxRy