Guns & Laws In America

[Deleted member 120]

Hot topic this one for our American cousins...
But there's, sadly, reports of yet another shooting across the pond. According to the news, there are multiple casualties in a shooting at a Florida school in Parkland.

I see very valid reasons on both sides about this. We had family here not so long back from the States and one of the cousins is ex-military and pro guns. He believes in their 2nd amendment = "the right to bear arms".
We discussed in length about this and the pros/cons. He made extremely valid points and I will admit that I had my eyes opened (in a good way) about how things work there.
He was also great at explaining these stock attachments that you apply, making say an AR (rifle) from semi to full automatic.
I mentioned my concerns that this could be lethal in the wrong hands and he agreed. He also said that chances are the US will ban them. A few weeks later that awful shooting in Vegas happened. What did he use? You got it, those stock attachments I've mentioned.

So what are your thoughts on it?
Surely having a weapon will mean you can shoot at the people doing the shooting in the first place?
Or is it really a FUBAR situation?

 

[stumpysteve]

As i understand it in American gun lobbyhold a fairly sizable vote when it comes to the elections so any party who makes it there aim to outlaw gun ownership is committing political suicide..

 

[Baldrick]

This is a very simple conclusion for me. I just look around at the people I know, work colleagues, neighbours, family and think "Feck! Imagine if that dipstick were allowed to own a gun!"
Am I oversimplifying things by saying if nobody had guns then nobody could get shot?

B x

 

[Sammy]

Having being held at gunpoint
Having seen the damage and fatalities in communities I have worked both in Ireland and Uk
I'm with @Baldricknkaz
I don't think anyone sensible buddy let alone some fecking gobshite should have a gun

I'm afraid I am that mammy that didn't allow guns
Sx

 

[Lovernotfighter]

This is a very simple conclusion for me. I just look around at the people I know, work colleagues, neighbours, family and think "Feck! Imagine if that dipstick were allowed to own a gun!"
Am I oversimplifying things by saying if nobody had guns then nobody could get shot?

B x

technically no your not oversimplifying they would still be issues with violence though, and ever country needs to ask why do people feel so estranged from they fellow country men that they are willing to physical attack them with the aim of maiming or killing.

 

[JEA4life]

This is a very simple conclusion for me. I just look around at the people I know, work colleagues, neighbours, family and think "Feck! Imagine if that dipstick were allowed to own a gun!"
Am I oversimplifying things by saying if nobody had guns then nobody could get shot?

B x

I think that's a little over simplifying, yes. Not silly or insane but you're Never going to stop the people who Shouldn't own guns from getting them. I own more then a couple firearms. I have a License to carry concealed and have had said license for almost 25yrs and Never encountered a situation where I felt the need to Shoot someone. What I can also say is I've gone through Extensive training(Ex-Military), Keep them in a safe and although I can, I don't walk around like Billy the Kid with a holster.

I am ALL for tightening our laws for Purchase. Including extensive checks, Banning of parts and accessories to make semi-auto into full auto, Etc. Anything to help make it harder for the borderline Nut to get one. Unfortunately what happens here is nobody looks at some middle ground. You have one side saying, "It's our RIGHT to Bear Arms" and the Other looking for a Full on Ban. WTF happened to working to get a solution to help Everyone?

 

[Therapon]

This is a very simple conclusion for me. I just look around at the people I know, work colleagues, neighbours, family and think "Feck! Imagine if that dipstick were allowed to own a gun!"
Am I oversimplifying things by saying if nobody had guns then nobody could get shot?

B x

They would use bows and arrows or similar

 

[Baldrick]

technically no your not oversimplifying they would still be issues with violence though, and ever country needs to ask why do people feel so estranged from they fellow country men that they are willing to physical attack them with the aim of maiming or killing.

Oh I absolutely agree, there will still be violent crimes, knife crimes etc. But by taking away guns we at least take away an extra tool that could be used for crimes.
I'm with you. Why do people feel the need to kill/maim others?

For example a news headline may read "44 year old kills 3 strangers in a supermarket".
How did this person go through life for 44 years killing nobody and suddenly just decide this is what they're going to do today. It absolutely boggles my mind .

B x

 

[Baldrick]

They would use bows and arrows or similar

Perhaps they would yes, but it would be much harder to mass murder in a crowd with a bow and arrow than it would with an automatic or semi-automatic rifle.

B x

 

[Sammy]

Perhaps they would yes, but it would be much harder to mass murder in a crowd with a bow and arrow than it would with an automatic or semi-automatic rifle.

B x

Guns are freely and readily available within our community
Anyone can lay their hands on one that's the scary part
Sx

 

[stumpysteve]

Guns are freely and readily available within our community
Anyone can lay their hands on one that's the scary part
Sx

Unfortunately in this day and age in big city's it's all to common .

 

[Sammy]

Unfortunately in this day and age in big city's it's all to common .

Even in the most rural communities too Steve
Sx

 

[Therapon]

Perhaps they would yes, but it would be much harder to mass murder in a crowd with a bow and arrow than it would with an automatic or semi-automatic rifle.

B x

Unfortunately the genie is out of the bag and it will be difficult to put it back. I'm not suggesting it's ignored but as we know in the UK there are strict gun laws but only last week a youngster was shot in Liverpool. So those determined to carry out these act will find a way to do it.

 

[Baldrick]

I think that's a little over simplifying, yes. Not silly or insane but you're Never going to stop the people who Shouldn't own guns from getting them. I own more then a couple firearms. I have a License to carry concealed and have had said license for almost 25yrs and Never encountered a situation where I felt the need to Shoot someone. What I can also say is I've gone through Extensive training(Ex-Military), Keep them in a safe and although I can, I don't walk around like Billy the Kid with a holster.

I am ALL for tightening our laws for Purchase. Including extensive checks, Banning of parts and accessories to make semi-auto into full auto, Etc. Anything to help make it harder for the borderline Nut to get one. Unfortunately what happens here is nobody looks at some middle ground. You have one side saying, "It's our RIGHT to Bear Arms" and the Other looking for a Full on Ban. WTF happened to working to get a solution to help Everyone?

I completely understand that Americans are passionate about their right to bear firearms, however if they never had that right to begin with, would that right really be missed?
I have never been upset that I can't own a gun. Infact I've never even thought about owning a gun. I have no need to.

I'm not naive enough to think that we don't have a black market of guns trade in this country but I do think the statistics speak for themselves. We have a lot less gun crime in Britain than America because there's a lot less people owning guns.

B x

 

[stumpysteve]

Even in the most rural communities too Steve
Sx

Alot of the problems with guns in this problem is the smuggling gangs from the eastern block country's.
Xx

 

[Baldrick]

Unfortunately the genie is out of the bag and it will be difficult to put it back. I'm not suggesting it's ignored but as we know in the UK there are strict gun laws but only last week a youngster was shot in Liverpool. So those determined to carry out these act will find a way to do it.

Yes I completely agree. There is no reversing it now. It's a bit like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.
There will always be a black market for guns but if we introduced a "right to bear arms law" for everybody...... well the UK would be a scarier place to live I think.

B x

 

[Sammy]

Alot of the problems with guns in this problem is the smuggling gangs from the eastern block country's.
Xx

Guns have been readily available long before the influence if Eastern European
Guns are a commodity, and can be bought for as little as a good Chinese meal or benefit in kind , many families have traded their children for a gun
Drugs , prostitution , sectarianism the list is endless
Sx

 

[stumpysteve]

I completely understand that Americans are passionate about their right to bear firearms, however if they never had that right to begin with, would that right really be missed?
I have never been upset that I can't own a gun. Infact I've never even thought about owning a gun. I have no need to.

I'm not naive enough to think that we don't have a black market of guns trade in this country but I do think the statistics speak for themselves. We have a lot less gun crime in Britain than America because there's a lot less people owning guns.

B x

The majority of the gun crime in America is from guns that are not legally licenced anyway. Not in all states of America are you allowed to own a gun anyway .

 

[Sammy]

Alot of the problems with guns in this problem is the smuggling gangs from the eastern block country's.
Xx

Guns have been readily available long before the influence if Eastern European
Guns are a commodity, and can be bought for as little as a good Chinese meal or benefit in kind , many families have traded their children for a gun
Drugs , prostitution , sectarianism the list is endless
Sx

 

[Baldrick]

Alot of the problems with guns in this problem is the smuggling gangs from the eastern block country's.
Xx

Guns have been readily available long before the influence if Eastern European
Sx

I would've thought guns have been available long before Eastern Europes smuggling gangs.

The majority of the gun crime in America is from guns that are not legally licenced anyway.

I have seen no evidence that proves this however I have seen no official statistics disproving it either so I can't make an educated comment.

I feel I have made my position clear on gun ownership anyway so for tonight I will let a few others air their opinions

B x

 

[JEA4life]

The majority of the gun crime in America is from guns that are not legally licenced anyway. Not in all states of America are you allowed to own a gun anyway .

You can Very much own a gun in Every State in the US. Each State has specific laws, however, as to What you can or can't own, how many, the list goes on.

What's nuts is that the States with the Most Restrictive gun laws in the US are Statistically more prone to gun violence then the States with the Most Liberal of gun laws.

 

[stumpysteve]

You can Very much own a gun in Every State in the US. Each State has specific laws, however, as to What you can or can't own, how many, the list goes on.
I stand corrected.isnt that normally the way tell someone they can't do something and they will do the complete opposite.
What's nuts is that the States with the Most Restrictive gun laws in the US are Statistically more prone to gun violence then the States with the Most Liberal of gun laws.

I stand corrected. It's human nature the more you tell someone they can't do anything they Will

 

[JEA4life]

You can Very much own a gun in Every State in the US. Each State has specific laws, however, as to What you can or can't own, how many, the list goes on.

What's nuts is that the States with the Most Restrictive gun laws in the US are Statistically more prone to gun violence then the States with the Most Liberal of gun laws.

Bear in mind what I said above can be Statistically bent to prove either side. Chicago. IL has some of the toughest laws(8th toughest in country) but has the Highest Gun Murder rate. But if you go by Population that doesn't stay valid... My point was mainly that the laws on the books don't prevent Bad people from doing bad things. Someone like myself, a life long gun owner, is willing to submit to ANY testing, verification, Psyc exam, Anything to help make sure they don't get into the wrong hands of otherwise descent people.

As for the Really Bad Guys, they're gonna do what they're gonna do no matter what...

 

[stumpysteve]

I completely agree with you gun on its own won't kill it's the human element is the deciding factor and as the saying goes bad people do bad things .

 

[Therapon]

And if the news is correct yet another school with fatalities in Florida.