The Right To Defend Your Own Home...

[Lips_Pearls]

As you may have heard or seen on the news yesterday, that a 78 year old man has been arrested for stabbing a burglar in his own home. The burglar was one of two men who'd broken into his home and they were wielding a screwdriver, the OAP retaliated by stabbing one of the guys who then died in hospital later on.

It's all over the news this morning and also how people are outraged at his charge of murder, for defending himself and his property.
Tabloid I know, but here's a link to check;
Neighbours of man held for 'killing burglar' insist he had right to defend self

So, last year IIRC we discussed this similar scenario and using reasonable force - which he did in this case.
Is this right or wrong? Should he be charged with murder, after all, he did kill the guy.. no mistaking that.
Or is the charge and if he gets prosecuted, another sign that our judicial system and laws are all to pot?

 

[Deleted member 3657]

Oh don't get me fucking started on this one

 

[.Jophanie.]

I'm with @Kwaka_Rider ....I best not get started!!!!

 

[Lips_Pearls]

Oh don't get me fucking started on this one

I'm with @Kwaka_Rider ....I best not get started!!!!

The point - is to.

 

[Sammy]

Is it the same in U.K. You can only defend if they get to second floor
Sx

 

[Nigel&Julie]

Is it the same in U.K. You can only defend if they get to second floor
Sx

Feck that, shoot the feckers as soon as they step foot into your house, as you can probably tell I'm all for protecting what's mine. N

 

[Sammy]

Feck that, shoot the feckers as soon as they step foot into your house, as you can probably tell I'm all for protecting what's mine. N

Oh i agree just querying if that the case
Sx

 

[Nigel&Julie]

The pensioner should have got a medal for it, one scumbag less on the streets. N

 

[.Jophanie.]

....... I believe if you break into my home and I have the courage to defend my home and you die, because you made a choice to put yourself in a dangerous situation. So be it. If someone broke in they came with the clear intention to do 'harm' to my home, and me.... Be it physically or mentally. Why should I be physically or mentally harmed by someone because they choose to enter my home without permission.
By punishing the home owner it sends out a message to law breakers that the law is there to be challenged and chanced. The legal system in the uk has so many holes and flaws it really gets my back up!!!?

 

[Sammy]

I know at home my friend was had issues with gardai when a youth at 11pm was damaging her garden and the dog bite him because he was hitting him with a stick , he was able to take legal action against her
Sx

 

[Baldrick]

Kaz and I were discussing this yesterday evening and I nearly created a thread then.

Let's put it into context. A 78 year old man investigated a noise in his home in the middle of the night and found 2 blokes in his house. If that isn't terrifying enough one of them attacks him.
The terrified old bloke defends himself and stabs the burglar/attacker. Then the poor old buggers ordeal gets worse by being locked up by the police .

Awwwwww poor Mr fucking burglar!! Did you get killed while attempting to rob and attack an old man?? Awwwww let me get my hanky to dry my eyes .

My view? No harm would've come to these two bottom feeders if they hadn't attempted to target, rob and attack a vulnerable old man in the first place. This burglar got what he deserved and the old man is nothing more than a victim.
In reality the old man also has to live with the fact he has killed somebody (intentionally or not), and he will probably be terrified from now on at every little noise he hears during the night .

B x

 

[Baldrick]

........And just so we know, if my was broken into and the burglars attacked me instead of running off, you can be damned sure I will protect my family by any means necessary!

B x

 

[Lips_Pearls]

Is it the same in U.K. You can only defend if they get to second floor
Sx

Here, the moment someone steps into your home uninvited or via force etc and displays a threat, you are entitled to defend your 'castle' by any means necessary as long as it is using 'reasonable force'.
What that is, is quite ambiguous x

 

[Baldrick]

Is it the same in U.K. You can only defend if they get to second floor
Sx

No UK law is quite vague regarding intruders and states something like 'you are entitled to defend yourself using reasonable force, regardless on if you are attacked first or not'.
I suppose now it has to be determined whether the old mans force was reasonable or not. In my eyes reasonable force was used.

B x

 

[Lovernotfighter]

As you may have heard or seen on the news yesterday, that a 78 year old man has been arrested for stabbing a burglar in his own home. The burglar was one of two men who'd broken into his home and they were wielding a screwdriver, the OAP retaliated by stabbing one of the guys who then died in hospital later on.

It's all over the news this morning and also how people are outraged at his charge of murder, for defending himself and his property.
Tabloid I know, but here's a link to check;
Neighbours of man held for 'killing burglar' insist he had right to defend self

So, last year IIRC we discussed this similar scenario and using reasonable force - which he did in this case.
Is this right or wrong? Should he be charged with murder, after all, he did kill the guy.. no mistaking that.
Or is the charge and if he gets prosecuted, another sign that our judicial system and laws are all to pot?

I'm not going to comment directly about this case, I don't know enough and truthfully no one yet really does even investigating the case, but I will say if your actions case another person to lose their lives you should expect to be arrested, investigated, and brought in front of a court for two reasons you've caused a another humans death and the decision whether to punish you should be made in a public forum.

 

[Pearls]

I find this madness, I have no doubt that this pensioner didn't have any intention of killing this intruder but he was in his right to protect his home and his wife who was still upstairs at the time.

A very similar incident happened to us 4 years ago, we have a large extension at the back of our property which has a door leading into the garden, at three in the morning we heard a loud thud, @Admin went down to have a look, before going into the kitchen he grabbed a baseball bat while I called the police. As soon as I said children in the property with a possible intruder they were here in less than 3mins.
As I opened the door, 5-6 armed police came running through with @Admin behind them with his baseball bat, not one officer said to get rid of it and afterwards when we were chatting to them @Admin said he would defend his family and protect them no matter what.
The intruder was never caught but they believed he was trying to steal our bulldog bitch, she's worth a few thousand and potentially a lot more to breeders if stolen.
Would My husband have hit out if he had come face to face with this intruder if he had got in? Yes 100% Thankfully we have good glazing and locks, lighting outside and security cameras. he gave up trying.

 

[Pearls]

Government advice is you can use reasonable force to protect yourself and others in your home.
That includes the use of a weapon in the heat of the moment.
You can also tackle an intruder and keep them until the police arrive.
The CPS advises that you will only be prosecuted for using very excessive force.
If you have acted in reasonable self defence and the intruder dies you will be seen to have behaved lawfully.
You are not protected by law if your actions are deemed over the top.

 

[.Jophanie.]

Here, the moment someone steps into your home uninvited or via force etc and displays a threat, you are entitled to defend your 'castle' by any means necessary as long as it is using 'reasonable force'.
What that is, is quite ambiguous x

I'm not going to comment directly about this case, I don't know enough and truthfully no one yet really does even investigating the case, but I will say if your actions case another person to lose their lives you should expect to be arrested, investigated, and brought in front of a court for two reasons you've caused a another humans death and the decision whether to punish you should be made in a public forum.

Ambiguous..... The legal system does not always work. I was talking with a barrister only a few days ago... He said the UK legal system is awful. He hates going to court because it depends on the day and mostly the mood of the judge. The barrister said he works heavily in mediation to avoid most cases getting to court because the outcome is fairer and usually produces a ''just" result. His advice to me in life was.... Avoid a UK court by anys means you have if you ever are faced with that type of situation. I think it's bloody mad....

 

[Lips_Pearls]

Ambiguous..... The legal system does not always work. I was talking with a barrister only a few days ago... He said the UK legal ststes is awful. He hates going to court because it depends on the day and mostly the mood of the judge. The barrister said he works heavily in mediation to avoid most cases getting to court because the outcome is fairer and usually produces a ''just" result. His advice to me in life was.... Avoid a UK court by ants means you have if you ever are faced with that type of situation. I think it's bloody mad....

The courts and judiciary system is madness. As is the CPS process. There's so many, too many, technical points and issues that can be take in different contexts that the laws become clear as mud.
As for judges, I concur that it's wholly dependant on their mood and if they've had their weetabix that morning. It's never black and white as there's simply too many grey areas which make it unfair on innocent genuine people.

 

[Lovernotfighter]

Ambiguous..... The legal system does not always work. I was talking with a barrister only a few days ago... He said the UK legal system is awful. He hates going to court because it depends on the day and mostly the mood of the judge. The barrister said he works heavily in mediation to avoid most cases getting to court because the outcome is fairer and usually produces a ''just" result. His advice to me in life was.... Avoid a UK court by anys means you have if you ever are faced with that type of situation. I think it's bloody mad....

I should add I was more thinking of a corner style court possibly even including a jury (such cases are fairy rare). I believe most in the legal system believe juries 'get it right' even if they get there 'the wrong way'

 

[Baldrick]

I'm not going to comment directly about this case, I don't know enough and truthfully no one yet really does even investigating the case, but I will say if your actions case another person to lose their lives you should expect to be arrested, investigated, and brought in front of a court for two reasons you've caused a another humans death and the decision whether to punish you should be made in a public forum.

I know enough about this case to know the old man is a victim to be honest. I have no sympathy at all for the burglars. They are the aggressors by default just by breaking into his home in the middle of the night in my opinion .

B x

 

[Baldrick]

Government advice is you can use reasonable force to protect yourself and others in your home.
That includes the use of a weapon in the heat of the moment.
You can also tackle an intruder and keep them until the police arrive.
The CPS advises that you will only be prosecuted for using very excessive force.
If you have acted in reasonable self defence and the intruder dies you will be seen to have behaved lawfully.
You are not protected by law if your actions are deemed over the top.

The massive problem with this is that nobody wants to eleborate on what is 'reasonable force'.

Two men break into my house. One attacks me......
"STOP. One second please. I just need to ring my solicitor to get advice as to what would be classed as reasonable force to repel your attack in this situation. Thank you so much.
Yes I'm on hold, shouldn't be long now. Thanks you both for your patience.
Right turns out I'm allowed to use this frying pan as long as there are no head blows. Now that's cleared up...... EN GARDE....."

B x

 

[.Jophanie.]

The courts and judiciary system is madness. As is the CPS process. There's so many, too many, technical points and issues that can be take in different contexts that the laws become clear as mud.
As for judges, I concur that it's wholly dependant on their mood and if they've had their weetabix that morning. It's never black and white as there's simply too many grey areas which make it unfair on innocent genuine people.

I have seen too many examples first hand where "law" is ridiculous.... You have to prove... Beyond the law of averages... The weight is always on the side of the person who has been "wronged" that it was done to them beyond doubt..... Which gives the person who did the crime a million loop holes and places to hide from it. I have seen people who have been seriously hurt by doing the "right thing" and take action against as£#@les have there lives made a misery and the scum who know the system work it to there advantage and end up walking away laughing!!!

 

[Lips_Pearls]

I have seen too many examples first hand where "law" is ridiculous.... You have to prove... Beyond the law of averages... The weight is always on the side of the person who has been "wronged" that it was done to them beyond doubt..... Which gives the person who did the crime a million loop holes and places to hide from it. I have seen people who have been seriously hurt by doing the "right thing" and take action against as£#@les have there lives made a misery and the scum who know the system work it to there advantage and end up walking away laughing!!!

Yep, been on the receiving end of it myself and now how pants it is and how easy it is, for someone to say to you "Can you prove it and convince the jury of beyond reasonable doubt that this person is guilty".. it's awful to be honest and there's nothing you can do about it. You get to say your truth before the other person goes up, when you see them lie and distort the truth - and you know they're convincing the jury of it too, you're helpless as there's nothing more you can do. Horrible situation to be in.

 

[Deleted member 6684]

Agree with @Jophanie's view 100%. Step into my house unlawfully...You get what I think you deserve.