Austria Bans The Burqa And Niqab Today

[Lips_Pearls]

So with that, more and more European countries are doing the same. France, Belgium have all done it and it's currently in the process of Government discussions in the Dutch parliament.
Angela Merkel said regarding Germany; "that the full-face veil should be prohibited in Germany wherever it is legally possible".

What are your thoughts on this and do you think the UK should consider such actions too?
As always, please keep it a healthy debate and try to avoid flaming etc.
x

 

[DiamondJoe]

I think it's totally fucking pointless.

The total number of women who insist on wearing a veil in Austria is only several hundred. So you turn those people into martyrs (in the Western sense), create a huge amount of negative publicity in the minds of Muslims across the world... and for what?

Is it really such an issue that confronts us on a daily basis or are we pushing people away and building barriers to co-operation?

It's countre-productive.

 

[DiamondJoe]

I think it's totally fucking pointless.

The total number of women who insist on wearing a veil in Austria is only several hundred. So you turn those people into martyrs (in the Western sense), create a huge amount of negative publicity in the minds of Muslims across the world... and for what?

Is it really such an issue that confronts us on a daily basis or are we pushing people away and building barriers to co-operation?

It's countre-productive.

It confirms Muslim suspicions about our prescriptive culture

 

[Deleted member 1030]

The total number of women who insist on wearing a veil in Austria is only several hundred.

According to BBC news, it's 150..... well, there's a great big problem that their government need to spend money on, isn't it?

I'm sure they're not pandering to extreme right wing elements, shortly before an election.

 

[Therapon]

Would we agree if all Muslim countries made it law for all European women to wear a Burqa and Niqab whilst in their country, I suspect not. It's playing politics, suppressing a minority to appease the majority.

 

[DiamondJoe]

I have a friend who's a little eccentric and he once wore a burqa for a whole day around town, just to see what would happen.

He was abused, name-called, by people who only see the outline and not the person underneath.

 

[Lovernotfighter]

Things like this I see purely as political populism that if anything makes the issues worse for focusing on only one group.

The is an issue, but I don't believe it to be a Muslim issue as I believe the issue many western countries should be grappling with is, Why are people that are born, raised, and educated in our supposedly liberal country's being attracted to wrapped ideologies and willing to take up arms against those said questions?, After all right across Europe not only are we seeing Islamic extremism but also once again the steady increase in support of the far right.

 

[meet_the_fockers]

I shall leave this to, you lot x

 

[DiamondJoe]

Things like this I see purely as political populism that if anything makes the issues worse for focusing on only one group.

The is an issue, but I don't believe it to be a Muslim issue as I believe the issue many western countries should be grappling with is, Why are people that are born, raised, and educated in our supposedly liberal country's being attracted to wrapped ideologies and willing to take up arms against those said questions?, After all right across Europe not only are we seeing Islamic extremism but also once again the steady increase in support of the far right.

Well said

 

[Lips_Pearls]

It confirms Muslim suspicions about our prescriptive culture

100% it does! They're screaming at us "we're oppressed/repressed by Western countries" , we're all saying "no you're not, we're liberal and you're not integrating enough" - and then governments go and do this...

 

[DiamondJoe]

100% it does! They're screaming at us "we're oppressed/repressed by Western countries" , we're all saying "no you're not, we're liberal and you're not integrating enough" - and then governments go and do this...

There's already a massive trade in conspiracy theories about the West in Muslim countries. It's quite staggering...

Conspiracy theories in the Arab world - Wikipedia
List of conspiracy theories - Wikipedia

 

[Baldrick]

I don't understand it myself. What is offensive about a Burqa? Does it hide a bomb? No? Do jackets hide bombs? Shall we ban jackets?
Is it more about hiding identities? In that case are they banning balaclavas? Hoodies? Motorcycle helmets? Surgical masks? Parkers? Wizards robes? What about Gandalf?

The world has gone bonkers. Another mass shooting in America today, so i suppose they'll ban guns? No? Thought not.

As a species are we doomed to self annihilation?

B x

 

[No longer with us]

Unless and until it runs into occasions when visual ID is required, I think banning it is at best useless and stupid, and at worst explicitly discriminatory. When visual/facial ID is required, then fair enough, I can understand a workaround being necessary.

I can understand, for example, it being required to remove it in court, as it’s felt - so the argument goes - a jury needs to be able to see the face of the person giving evidence. I’ve no idea of the evidentiary value of that but then I’m not a lawyer, and I’m happy to leave such judgements to those who know rather than assume such things.

But ‘in public’, in the street, etc? I’ve yet to see any argument for banning it that doesn’t fall apart under the slightest questioning.

 

[Deleted member 3657]

Is it more about hiding identities? In that case are they banning balaclavas? Hoodies? Motorcycle helmets?

As you all know I'm a biker. I have been at a petrol station and over the tannoy been told to remove my helmet before they would authorise the pump. In the next lane was a woman wearing a Burqa yet nothing was said. After doing so, filled my bike I went inside. I asked the question why I had to remove the helmet and he told me it was for security reasons and that my face had to be seen. I mentioned the woman in the next lane and asked why she didn't have to show her face for the same reasons. He avoided any real answer by accusing me of being racist.

In my line of work I see the security aspect of it all. You try walking in to a shop or around town with a balaclava or helmet on and see how far you get. You only have to do a quick google search to discover a multitude of reports where men have been caught wearing a burqa who are involved with terrorist activities. I'm not offended by women wearing it, I'm worried purely on a security aspect. Having to have to travel from one camp to another on a daily basis and getting reports from police about servicemen and women being followed that it makes me suspicious. It's a serious concern.

 

[DiamondJoe]

As you all know I'm a biker. I have been at a petrol station and over the tannoy been told to remove my helmet before they would authorise the pump. In the next lane was a woman wearing a Burqa yet nothing was said. After doing so, filled my bike I went inside. I asked the question why I had to remove the helmet and he told me it was for security reasons and that my face had to be seen. I mentioned the woman in the next lane and asked why she didn't have to show her face for the same reasons. He avoided any real answer by accusing me of being racist.

In my line of work I see the security aspect of it all. You try walking in to a shop or around town with a balaclava or helmet on and see how far you get. You only have to do a quick google search to discover a multitude of reports where men have been caught wearing a burqa who are involved with terrorist activities. I'm not offended by women wearing it, I'm worried purely on a security aspect. Having to have to travel from one camp to another on a daily basis and getting reports from police about servicemen and women being followed that it makes me suspicious. It's a serious concern.

I still think the total number of cases is tiny that it's only an issue generating bad publicity, rather than a generalised security concern. How many people in burqas do you see on a daily basis, honestly?

Sure, if we were in Afghanistan I'd agree - but that's a very Muslim country and I don't think it would be possible to ban the burqa there either.

 

[meet_the_fockers]

I still think the total number of cases is tiny that it's only an issue generating bad publicity, rather than a generalised security concern. How many people in burqas do you see on a daily basis, honestly?

Sure, if we were in Afghanistan I'd agree - but that's a very Muslim country and I don't think it would be possible to ban the burqa there either.

Or Bolton

 

[DiamondJoe]

Or Bolton

They have many burqa-clad bank robbers there then?

 

[DiamondJoe]

They have many burqa-clad bank robbers there then?

"Does my bomb look big in this?"

 

[Deleted member 1030]

You only have to do a quick google search to discover a multitude of reports where men have been caught wearing a burqa who are involved with terrorist activities.

Did one, couldn't find any. Did find;
David Videcette, a former officer with Scotland Yard’s Anti-Terrorist Squad who was at the centre of the 7/7 bombings inquiry, told FactCheck that he didn’t think burqas posed a particular security threat. In fact, he said he was only aware of two suspects who had used it to disguise themselves: one in 2005 and the other in 2010. In all my years of experience, they are the only two times that I can think of when it’s caused a problem. I wouldn’t say it’s a widespread problem."

 

[Deleted member 3657]

Did one, couldn't find any. Did find;
David Videcette, a former officer with Scotland Yard’s Anti-Terrorist Squad who was at the centre of the 7/7 bombings inquiry, told FactCheck that he didn’t think burqas posed a particular security threat. In fact, he said he was only aware of two suspects who had used it to disguise themselves: one in 2005 and the other in 2010. In all my years of experience, they are the only two times that I can think of when it’s caused a problem. I wouldn’t say it’s a widespread problem."

Found these

 

[Deleted member 1030]

Found these

That's only one (unchecked) story.

 

[Pearls]

You can't go into a shop wearing a balaclava so why should we have burkas where you can only see eyes, head dresses but not full veils, who knows whats under there.

 

[DiamondJoe]

You can't go into a shop wearing a balaclava so why should we have burkas where you can only see eyes, head dresses but not full veils, who knows whats under there.

Must be really convenient on Monday mornings - wtf to wear, bad hair, bags under the eyes, spotty bits, blood shot eyes with a thousand yard stare...

All gone under a modest black onesie.

Job done.

 

[Pearls]

Must be really convenient on Monday mornings - wtf to wear, bad hair, bags under the eyes, spotty bits, blood shot eyes with a thousand yard stare...

All gone under a modest black onesie.

Job done.

if that was the case I wouldn't even show my eyes..

 

[Baldrick]

^^^^ sorry just wanted to press the new button

B x