Guns & Laws In America
- Thread starter Lips_Pearls
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I think everyone in America should have a gun. Every man, woman and child. Tooled up. There's already enough gunnage to go round.This is a very simple conclusion for me. I just look around at the people I know, work colleagues, neighbours, family and think "Feck! Imagine if that dipstick were allowed to own a gun!"
Am I oversimplifying things by saying if nobody had guns then nobody could get shot?
B x
Equal opportunities maiming
MOTM
So a 19yr old walks into a school and kills 17 innocent people with a gun!
Is this guy old enough to have a gun?
As mentioned we have family in the States, They all own guns but stick to the law, my cousin has a licence for a concealed weapon (ex marine) he walks proudly with this weapon daily but has never used it, do I agree with that? No, what would happen if he did have to draw that weapon for what ever reason.
I see both sides here but I do agree stricter laws need to be enforced, I don't think you should be able to walk into a super market and be able to purchase a gun.
More crazy nuts are going to kill innocent people unless America starts waking up.
Is this guy old enough to have a gun?
As mentioned we have family in the States, They all own guns but stick to the law, my cousin has a licence for a concealed weapon (ex marine) he walks proudly with this weapon daily but has never used it, do I agree with that? No, what would happen if he did have to draw that weapon for what ever reason.
I see both sides here but I do agree stricter laws need to be enforced, I don't think you should be able to walk into a super market and be able to purchase a gun.
More crazy nuts are going to kill innocent people unless America starts waking up.
True but then saying that, look at what he discussed with us one evening when a gang approached him?
He was on his Harley at a shopping centre, got off and a crowd of youths gathered around him and the bike (it's an expensive big arsed bike right..) and they started pushing him for change/money, then they started demanding it from him. He's a chunk of a bloke who is very strong, seriously he is one strong dude, but he told them to fook right off... they started getting angry at him.
So he moved to the pannier of the Harley where he has a colt .45 and went to get it, told the kids what he had in the box and they should leave now or he will use it.
They scarpered.
So in this sense it acted as a deterrent.
His biggest issue was the bump stock system. He owns AK 47, AR15, many other rifles and pistols. Anyway he bought his bump stocks in a sale for 20 USD each! He bought about 10 of them plus bought his boss some too.
He goes to gun fairs where you can buy boxes of ammunition by the 1k. Also you can get extended mags.
We worked it out that for about 2-300 USD you can get a 'clean' rifle, bump stock and 1k rounds.
Madness. Even he said it was and he's pro guns.
However, he also explained that weapons now sold legally come with ballistic trails which I think is an excellent idea.
My opinion is this, it's not the gun that kills people but the person firing it. The gun laws in the States, according to my cousin-in-law, are very strict but need to be tougher. However, it's too easy to get things out there to modify the weapons.
Like cars isn't it? All cars are weapons. Fact. But it's whether the driver decides to use it as one.
FWIW we will be visiting them soon I hope and as someone who has handled a variety of firearms - I will 100% be going on the ranges myself with the AR 15 and AK etc.
PS excellent replies so far folks.
x
The difficulty is that we don't have a gun culture in the UK - we view this debate, often with disbelief and dismay, from a very safe culture. Might not feel it sometimes but it is.
However, in America, they have this part of their Constitution called the Second Amendment, and interpretation of this obscure 18th century by-line has come to dominate the gun control debate.
Ergo, we are not dealing with rational argument but with passion, and I would just point out that the other side of the debate has guns...
However, in America, they have this part of their Constitution called the Second Amendment, and interpretation of this obscure 18th century by-line has come to dominate the gun control debate.
Ergo, we are not dealing with rational argument but with passion, and I would just point out that the other side of the debate has guns...
@Lips_Pearls it's not often I disagree with you my friend but I must disagree with the above.
That situation could've escalated very quickly. Your cousin was very lucky. If the youths had've stood their ground he could've ended up shooting and killing a minor or worse the gang could've pulled guns on him and shot and killed him...... For a Harley?!
In this country we have mandatory insurance and if I felt threatened enough I would've let them take the Harley and claimed on the insurance later.
At the end of the day it is a thing, an object, it's replaceable. There is no coming back from or replacement for taking somebody's life.
Sorry got to disagree again Guv'nor. Cars are not weapons, they are designed to be a mode of transportation and as safe as possible.
Guns are designed to be a weapon and designed to cause maximum damage.
Based on your argument, anything could be a weapon. Right now I could pick up this PC monitor and stove my bosses face in with it. Does that make it a weapon? No. I have simply misused a piece of equipment designed for another purpose.
I'm treading shakey ground now disagreeing with the Guv'nor
B x
Alot of thing's can be described as weapons if an object is used to inflict violence on someone then it is a weapon. Look at the recent terrorist attacks were vehicals such as HGV have been used to kill people. Those trucks were not designed to kill people. A weapon on its own doesn't kill it's the human element that makes it deadly.@Lips_Pearls it's not often I disagree with you my friend but I must disagree with the above.
That situation could've escalated very quickly. Your cousin was very lucky. If the youths had've stood their ground he could've ended up shooting and killing a minor or worse the gang could've pulled guns on him and shot and killed him...... For a Harley?!
In this country we have mandatory insurance and if I felt threatened enough I would've let them take the Harley and claimed on the insurance later.
At the end of the day it is a thing, an object, it's replaceable. There is no coming back from or replacement for taking somebody's life.
Sorry got to disagree again Guv'nor. Cars are not weapons, they are designed to be a mode of transportation and as safe as possible.
Guns are designed to be a weapon and designed to cause maximum damage.
Based on your argument, anything could be a weapon. Right now I could pick up this PC monitor and stove my bosses face in with it. Does that make it a weapon? No. I have simply misused a piece of equipment designed for another purpose.
I'm treading shakey ground now disagreeing with the Guv'nor
B x
Yes. Absolutely it does. Guns are weapons, but so are vehicles and any object you choose - but it's whether the person decides to make it so or not. Same as guns, the guns don't kill. The person behind the trigger does.
The weapon used to kill these people yesterday didn't kill them, that 19 year old kid did.
Yeah regarding our cousin, what we must understand and a lot of us fail to do so as pointed out by @DiamondJoe is, our culture is different so we seem it Neanderthal somewhat to have a gun culture. But in the US it's been their culture pretty much from the word go.
The right to bare arm's in America goes back to the wild west day's ..
Jim Jefferies sums it up pretty well.
watch
I find it odd how the circle is always...
A Shooting Happens -> This isn't the time to talk about guns, lets mourn the dead.
By the time its time to talk about guns... another shooting happens - the cycle continues...
watch
I find it odd how the circle is always...
A Shooting Happens -> This isn't the time to talk about guns, lets mourn the dead.
By the time its time to talk about guns... another shooting happens - the cycle continues...
Don't be silly! This is debates & discussions... You know (or should) that I am not like that whatsoever!I'm treading shakey ground now disagreeing with the Guv'nor
Yes everything could be considered a weapon but most things are designed for another purpose and sometimes they're misused as weapons.
Guns however are designed to be weapons and designed to kill people. So far I haven't heard any argument that would sway me into thinking it would be a good idea to let general members of the public own one.
Yes I agree that it's the arsehole that wields the gun that killed those poor people. My argument is, why allow him to have access to that device purely designed to kill in the first place.
Yes I'm sure he'd have found another weapon but let's limit his choice and perhaps limit the amount of damage he can do.
I don't see the Americans as Neanderthal just somewhat stubborn to change. Slavery was in their culture (and ours) for a long time, but it doesn't make it right hence why they and we put a stop to it. I realise I'm digressing slightly in order to make my point.
B x
D
Deleted member 3175
I have to agree! Especially when it involves school kids, what have they done?
My personal opinion on this matter is everyone who owns a gun needs some form psychological evaluation before they are allowed to have a gun. I know this wont necessarily prevent people from doing what they do, but surely this would help weed out some of the weirdos? S xx
Thats fair but a prevention method I thought off is - stop selling guns to people born after say 2010....
then that way the generation with guns currently can keep them (and they are happy) and then by 100 years time guns would be fully gone.. you cant just take guns away that would create uproar. But eventually they will be gone - its a logical plan imo
D
Deleted member 3175
That sounds like a good option, this is something that is going to take some time to sort out.
I think that there should at least be at least an older age limit on when you can get a gun same if not older than when you are allowed to drink in the US. Its going to be a bone of contention for many many years to come, and I believe it's going to take something even worse than what has happened before for anything actually happens. Sx
Do you seriously think Americans would go for that??
This is a country where 20% think the end of the world will occur in their lifetime and where 21% think it more important to stock up on end of the world supplies than it is to invest in a pension.
I can't find the requisite Larson cartoon, but it's the same argument that sees the bumper sticker on a UFO that reads "Ray guns don't kill Zorbonians. Zorbonians kill Zorbonians".
I have to agree with Balders - few guns = fewer deaths from guns.
But you can't expect this debate to rest on common sense. It doesn't work like that.
D
Deleted member 3175
Do you seriously think Americans would go for that??
This is a country where 20% think the end of the world will occur in their lifetime and where 21% think it more important to stock up on end of the world supplies than it is to invest in a pension.
No but we can live in hope.
Coincidentally only watched this exact show a couple of weeks ago and agreed with most of what he was saying
B x
I have really struggled finding credible sources for global gun crime statistics. No two sites seem to have the exact same stats however the general consensus appears to be:-
USA gun deaths 10.54 per 100,000 population capita.
Uk gun deaths 0.23 per 100,000 population capita.
B x
USA gun deaths 10.54 per 100,000 population capita.
Uk gun deaths 0.23 per 100,000 population capita.
B x
Just to amend the above stats, according to the ITV news I've just watched:-
USA gun deaths 2.8 per 100,000 population capita.
Uk gun deaths 0.01 per 100,000 population capita.
and apparently in the USA this year so far there has been a school shooting for every week that has passed
.
B x
USA gun deaths 2.8 per 100,000 population capita.
Uk gun deaths 0.01 per 100,000 population capita.
and apparently in the USA this year so far there has been a school shooting for every week that has passed
.B x
You just beat me before I could post my amended stats according to the ITV newsI'll buy that order of magnitude
B x