Is This Right, Or Wrong?

[Lips_Pearls]

Afternoon sexies. So taking a short break for lunch and catching up on some news and I found this;

US transgender runner Cece Telfer who previously competed against men, has become embroiled in controversy after winning the women’s 400m hurdles title – with many fans accusing the athlete of having an unfair advantage.
Franklin Pierce University senior Telfer took the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) women’s 400m hurdles title in dominant fashion at the end of May, setting a new personal best of 57.53 and finishing more than a second ahead of rival runners.

As you can imagine, there’s uproar online with people saying she’s a male running in female races.
We’ve seen this happen in the UK too, in ladies cycling as well as swimming.

So, do you think this is right and that trans ladies should be allowed and entitled to participate in ladies sports?

Or do you think it’s wrong because ultimately it’s a belief not a physical state. Or for whatever reason, it’s simply wrong.

FWIW - Cece Telfer identifies as a lady.

 

[Pearls]

I think it’s wrong. She ran in a male race only a year ago and won. Male who is only identifying as a female and still physically a man.

 

[BiLouJ]

I agree with a Pearls! It’s wrong! She still has the build, stamina, speed and strength as a man!

This reminds me of a case a few years ago when a boy at my son’s school, an all boys school, turned 16 and began his transition into becoming female. There was a whole school assembly about it (1,800 boys!).

The boy/girl had decided to stay at the all boys school but the law stated that she had to be catered for. A new uniform to include a skirt was designed for her, she couldn’t change for games with the boys but there were no female changing rooms because it has always been a boys school.

There is a girls school across the road and a mixed school 10 minutes away!

I just didn’t understand why someone would want to be the only girl (on hormone medication and quickly developing breasts) in a school of 1,800 boys!
It also opened a can of worms as to why she was allowed to remain at the school when no other girl could apply!

Someone did update the Wikipedia page for the school to say 1,799 boys and 1 girl!

Crazy!

 

[Pearls]

I agree with a Pearls! It’s wrong! She still has the build, stamina, speed and strength as a man!

This reminds me of a case a few years ago when a boy at my son’s school, an all boys school, turned 16 and began his transition into becoming female. There was a whole school assembly about it (1,800 boys!).

The boy/girl had decided to stay at the all boys school but the law stated that she had to be catered for. A new uniform to include a skirt was designed for her, she couldn’t change for games with the boys but there were no female changing rooms because it has always been a boys school.

There is a girls school across the road and a mixed school 10 minutes away!

I just didn’t understand why someone would want to be the only girl (on hormone medication and quickly developing breasts) in a school of 1,800 boys!
It also opened a can of worms as to why she was allowed to remain at the school when no other girl could apply!

Someone did update the Wikipedia page for the school to say 1,799 boys and 1 girl!

Crazy!

That is crazy x

 

[Stew]

That is crazy x

Political correctness gone mad !!

 

[Deleted member 11094]

There's obviously a lot of questions regarding this article. I'd say make space for more mixed competitions, in that way creating space for people to compete in these areas. Like creating areas where all competitors are evenly matched physically, regardless of their gender. But I don't think this will happen anytime soon.

Trans people have always existed, if people aren't happy with them competing in certain competitions due to physicalities then maybe people prefer to see somewhere where these athletes can compete. Somewhere they can follow their passion/career without being heavily questioned. Matching competitors up physically regardless of their gender would seem fair if a person's physicality is the only aspect in question.

 

[Louise94]

There's obviously a lot of questions regarding this article. I'd say make space for more mixed competitions, in that way creating space for people to compete in these areas. Like creating areas where all competitors are evenly matched physically, regardless of their gender. But I don't think this will happen anytime soon.

Trans people have always existed, if people aren't happy with them competing in certain competitions due to physicalities then maybe people prefer to see somewhere where these athletes can compete. Somewhere they can follow their passion/career without being heavily questioned. Matching competitors up physically regardless of their gender would seem fair if a person's physicality is the only aspect in question.

I only wish I could have written a reply half as good as this.

Xxx

 

[Lovernotfighter]

Since it's a sports question it all depends on if theirs a performance advantage of not, and I don't know or understand anywhere near enough to judge whether not she had one.

I would say though that I would like to more (non-contact) sports allow adult males and females to compete against each other as is the case in Motorsport and Rowing, the former has tends to no sex categories and later having an Open category opposed to a Men's.

 

[Deleted member 11094]

I only wish I could have written a reply half as good as this.

Xxx

Everyone has their own thoughts on it, am sure you do too & can articulate it.

The thing is that the system already in place needs a shift. We don't have the power to change things to make things more fair. It's easy for us to complain about the trans woman in question, it's understandable too due to physical differences. But if she isn't welcomed in the women's or the men's, then at least give athletes an option to compete in a mixed environment that isn't determined by gender, but by ability. The system in place isn't ready to shift & change these things, so it's all well and good being upset about something that seems wrong, but if none of us are willing to push for something that is fair for athletes like Cece (like mixed competitions based on ability), then all we're doing is complaining & venting about Trans people. Times are changing, not long ago certain people were barred from running marathons & taking part in certain sports, based on gender, sexuality , etc. Hopefully things will evolve in a positive way for situations like this too.

 

[Captain-Smith-and-Lady-Jane]

How about handicapping?

I don't mean lopping feet off so they can compete in the Paralympics (but you wait, sooner or later somebody will probably do it!) but more like they do in golf or horse racing. That way an athlete's performance is measured largely against their own personal average, and would provide a truly gender-neutral playing field and get away from all the men's/women's event business entirely.

 

[Lace]

I see both sides here and fully understand what transgender people go through to be accepted as the person they want to be.
Would she want to run in an all male race when she identifies as a female? No she doesn’t.
As a male he did run in an all male race and lost badly from what I read, but two years later then won this race being all female.
So those are facts but facts are that and being a male only identifying as a female still makes his physical form male.
Facts are, the male body has more muscle mass, tendons and bone density are bigger.
Do I feel that it was an unfair race? Yes and it is clearly felt by the other competitors in the news article and photo.
Points have been made about solutions and how transgender can be accepted in such sports. I don’t know what the answer to that would be but I do understand the frustration of all parties taking part.

 

[GeoffRy]

Its def wrong.
If its an unfair advantage for an athlete to dose themselves with testosterone to enable better muscle growth then it must be an unfair advantage for a Transwoman who has had the advantage of higher testosterone levels to build a bigger body. Just identifying as either gender does not change biology. We are fans of MMA and there was a case last year with a big muscly dude transitioning and then competing and literally smashing all the biological women they fought through not being more skilled but just being stronger and more muscular.

It is a fact of nature that there is a difference between the male and female bodies and minds for that matter and I find all this saying it isnt so and constant forcing of progressive ideals on people to be infuriating and just downright insane.

Xx G

 

[Lips_Pearls]

We are fans of MMA and there was a case last year with a big muscly dude transitioning and then competing and literally smashing all the biological women they fought through not being more skilled but just being stronger and more muscular.

Wow. Just... wow! That is immoral, unethical..

 

[Ahabs]

Nope! I am staying well out of this one!!! ...

 

[Ahabs]

Fuck it, since I killed the thread, I might as well be Dr Frankenstein:

What I want to know, if we are looking at things from an equality perspective:
1) Should men and women tennis players be paid the same, and why?
2) Should men and women tennis players play the same number of sets, and why?

In order to answer this, consider: men play 3-5 sets, women play 2-3 sets.
If you pay equally by number of sets, then women get less per match.
If you pay equally per match, then men get less per set.

If you then want to complicate things (bringing it back to the thread), would you want a transgender man playing against other biological men (and potentially earning less per set), while at same time a transgender woman playing against biological women (And potentially earning less per match) ?

Ok,...that's me back in my cave. I don't have the answers.

 

[Ahabs]

It is a fact of nature that there is a difference between the male and female bodies and minds for that matter and I find all this saying it isnt so and constant forcing of progressive ideals on people to be infuriating and just downright insane.

Xx G

Unfortunately, there is an active movement (especially on social media) that if you're not progressive, or supportive of progressive ideas (ie, if you're not "woke"), then you're part of the problem (all sorts of words/terms get thrown in).
And so you get a lot of people, out of fear of being "outed" as being "anti-progressive" cave in to "less-thought-out" ideas.

Here's an example of such "less thought out" (and seemingly, mutually exclusive) ideas:
1) "We must narrow the gender pay gap between ment and women".
2) "There are 41 genders".

So to me I'm thinking "Oh, I guess the other 39 genders can go fuck themselves as far as equal pay then?"

 

[The-Gent]

Afternoon sexies. So taking a short break for lunch and catching up on some news and I found this;



As you can imagine, there’s uproar online with people saying she’s a male running in female races.
We’ve seen this happen in the UK too, in ladies cycling as well as swimming.

So, do you think this is right and that trans ladies should be allowed and entitled to participate in ladies sports?

Or do you think it’s wrong because ultimately it’s a belief not a physical state. Or for whatever reason, it’s simply wrong.

FWIW - Cece Telfer identifies as a lady.

View attachment 63809

I guess that it is generally agreed that going back to the hunter gatherer, Men develop more mucle than most ladies so i am not sure that this has caught up like in local leagues there is a handicap maybe one day that could be ?

 

[Pearls]

Unfortunately, there is an active movement (especially on social media) that if you're not progressive, or supportive of progressive ideas (ie, if you're not "woke"), then you're part of the problem (all sorts of words/terms get thrown in).
And so you get a lot of people, out of fear of being "outed" as being "anti-progressive" cave in to "less-thought-out" ideas.

Here's an example of such "less thought out" (and seemingly, mutually exclusive) ideas:
1) "We must narrow the gender pay gap between ment and women".
2) "There are 41 genders".

So to me I'm thinking "Oh, I guess the other 39 genders can go fuck themselves as far as equal pay then?"

41 genders?
How?

 

[GeoffRy]

Yep the social media warriors have a lot to answer to.

As for the gender pay gap there is quite a lot of evidence that once you factor in all the variables it doesn't exist.

I.e. There are more male C.E.O and members of the boards of big companies. Yep but also there are a lot more males working in those industries who have started work, never taken a year or two off to have a family and once having a family have completely messed up their married life by constantly working 12 hours a day and ignoring the family.

It makes sense to me that a completely driven focused person who constantly gives 100 percent to their career and not their personal life would rise to the top in chosen career/profession, and strangely most people who are that psychotic are male.

Pulls pin and throws social hand grenade whilst calmly strutting out the door. Xx G

 

[GeoffRy]

41 genders?
How?

The number grows every month. Lol

 

[The-Gent]

Well not to be controversial there are only two, male and female! not talking about preferences, but fashioned bodies! its just a place to start.

 

[Pearls]

Well not to be controversial there are only two, male and female! not talking about preferences, but fashioned bodies! its just a place to start.

And intersex. Three max x

 

[GeoffRy]

And intersex. Three max x

That's me I am definitely in ta sex. Xx G

 

[Ahabs]

The number grows every month. Lol

You're not kidding! I tired to find the link to the article declaring that there are 41 genders ... and ended up in a rabbit hole of no.. 58.. wait... 63 ... hang on .. 71 genders. Links below:

Here's a List of 58 Gender Options for Facebook Users

63 Genders ― A New Perspective on Sex and Gender

Facebook's 71 gender options come to UK users

... only reason I remembered was because there was an online store selling the t-shirt, with the advert (and I shit you not) "In male and female sizes".

 

[Pearls]

You're not kidding! I tired to find the link to the article declaring that there are 41 genders ... and ended up in a rabbit hole of no.. 58.. wait... 63 ... hang on .. 71 genders. Links below:

Here's a List of 58 Gender Options for Facebook Users

63 Genders ― A New Perspective on Sex and Gender

Facebook's 71 gender options come to UK users

... only reason I remembered was because there was an online store selling the t-shirt, with the advert (and I shit you not) "In male and female sizes".

I’m saying nowt