Eu....stay Or Go?

[Admin]

Well, yes, I'm being slightly flippant (though I'd like to point out that London's not in Yorkshire, so back atcha).
I've got some serious problems with the way the EU operates, not least because it is mostly business-interest orientated, but I think I'm leaning more towards the 'inside-the-tent-pissing-out' school of thought i.e. we can only hope to change things if we stay part of it.

Besides, if you listen to both campaigns, we're heading towards ultimate destruction whichever way we vote!

The latter is certainly true my friend..!
Yes I know you were hence my flippant reply lol
I do see your point though but meh.. But I agree with this last post and I think it's tailored for the 1% too...
Ultimately, and I shouldn't really get too involved on this thread, even though I have been (lol!?) but ultimately I see it as nothing more than a rich man's club - the kind you get at tennis clubs and whatnot, built for and ran by - fatcats who like to apply thumb pressure when they feel the need to.
Just my feelings on it besides all the other issues..

Some concerns I do have personally though besides those mentioned, is things like housing standards and repair standards etc from landlords and so on. This can be a little worrying, as some levels now for care and maintenance are far better being IN the EU...

 

[Deleted member 3289]

Well, yes, I'm being slightly flippant (though I'd like to point out that London's not in Yorkshire, so back atcha).
I've got some serious problems with the way the EU operates, not least because it is mostly business-interest orientated, but I think I'm leaning more towards the 'inside-the-tent-pissing-out' school of thought i.e. we can only hope to change things if we stay part of it.

Besides, if you listen to both campaigns, we're heading towards ultimate destruction whichever way we vote!

Spot on -we're doomed both ways but pissing out of a tent always feels better somehow even if it might be in to the wind!

 

[Therapon]

I took at look at some of the arguements for the last referendum - they were more or less the same although I'd say they were better presented at the time.

 

[Deleted member 1030]

ultimately I see it as nothing more than a rich man's club - the kind you get at tennis clubs and whatnot, built for and ran by - fatcats who like to apply thumb pressure when they feel the need to.
.

Yes, I agree. This is how I see it too.

Some concerns I do have personally though besides those mentioned, is things like housing standards and repair standards etc from landlords and so on. This can be a little worrying, as some levels now for care and maintenance are far better being IN the EU...

And this what worries me. Not just housing standards, but workers rights, health and safety (proper h&s, not the banning conkers in schools sensationalism) etc.

 

[Admin]

And this what worries me. Not just housing standards, but workers rights, health and safety (proper h&s, not the banning conkers in schools sensationalism) etc.

Agreed... Trade is not one of my biggest personal concerns I'll be honest. As I think we'll be fine.. as you said, it's the set standards that are in place. These are the little niggles I have, even though I am an out 100%.

I took at look at some of the arguements for the last referendum - they were more or less the same although I'd say they were better presented at the time.

Yes pretty much the same issues, and it goes to show that in all those years, nothing much has changed...
So has it really benefited us?

 

[Deleted member 1030]

I took at look at some of the arguements for the last referendum - they were more or less the same although I'd say they were better presented at the time.

I think that one of the biggest problems about the current campaigns is that it seems to have turned into a Dave versus Boris battle!

 

[Twickerman]

The greatest benefits so far of EU membership that I perceive

1) Harmonisation of regulatory systems.

For instance, the UK is a global leader in Pharmaceuticals. One licensing process now gains a company EU wide licensing. This is worth billions a year to the UK economy and means we as a tiny market globally get drugs as soon as anywhere else other than possibly America.

2) Working Time Directive.

The only legal protection afforded to those on zero hour contracts or anti-social hours these days. Vehemently opposed by pro business UK governments.

3) Bill of Rights

The right granted under this to expression of sexual freedom was the real reason Dave agreed to gay marriages. Otherwise the EU would have imposed their version, after years of UK prevarication, which would have not granted specific religions exemptions. It is also of course why we can all freely sit here.

The UK is a more liberal and lucrative place to live because of EU membership in my opinion. It is not perfect by far but recent evidence suggests we in the UK cannot preach about the quality of our political governance.

 

[Deleted member 3289]

The greatest benefits so far of EU membership that I perceive

1) Harmonisation of regulatory systems.

For instance, the UK is a global leader in Pharmaceuticals. One licensing process now gains a company EU wide licensing. This is worth billions a year to the UK economy and means we as a tiny market globally get drugs as soon as anywhere else other than possibly America.

2) Working Time Directive.

The only legal protection afforded to those on zero hour contracts or anti-social hours these days. Vehemently opposed by pro business UK governments.

3) Bill of Rights

The right granted under this to expression of sexual freedom was the real reason Dave agreed to gay marriages. Otherwise the EU would have imposed their version, after years of UK prevarication, which would have not granted specific religions exemptions. It is also of course why we can all freely sit here.

The UK is a more liberal and lucrative place to live because of EU membership in my opinion. It is not perfect by far but recent evidence suggests we in the UK cannot preach about the quality of our political governance.

Thanks for sharing those perspectives @Twickerman . I wasn't expecting this originally but most sensible debate about which way to swing on June 23rd has been with you socialites here...

 

[Admin]

The greatest benefits so far of EU membership that I perceive

1) Harmonisation of regulatory systems.

For instance, the UK is a global leader in Pharmaceuticals. One licensing process now gains a company EU wide licensing. This is worth billions a year to the UK economy and means we as a tiny market globally get drugs as soon as anywhere else other than possibly America.

2) Working Time Directive.

The only legal protection afforded to those on zero hour contracts or anti-social hours these days. Vehemently opposed by pro business UK governments.

3) Bill of Rights

The right granted under this to expression of sexual freedom was the real reason Dave agreed to gay marriages. Otherwise the EU would have imposed their version, after years of UK prevarication, which would have not granted specific religions exemptions. It is also of course why we can all freely sit here.

The UK is a more liberal and lucrative place to live because of EU membership in my opinion. It is not perfect by far but recent evidence suggests we in the UK cannot preach about the quality of our political governance.

Thanks for sharing those perspectives @Twickerman . I wasn't expecting this originally but most sensible debate about which way to swing on June 23rd has been with you socialites here...

I agree with @JustCurious99 here Mr @Twickerman - that's again another well written reply and I too agree that the debate has been brilliant so far. I was sitting on the edge of my seat when this started, as I know all too well - as we all most likely do, how political threads can go, but thus far it's been a great and is a great debate with rationale from all sides.
Refreshing.

 

[Pearls]

Yes but that's within the country itself correct? I see your logic, but it's not quite on track because... well, Brussels isn't within the United Kingdom, is it?



We have an even marriage.

You sure

 

[Admin]

Some news for you to consider Miss ViVi x @VoluptuousVixen
EU rules stopped Britain deporting murderers, rapists and violent criminals

A report last week warned that 5,789 criminals from overseas are free to walk the UK's streets - the highest number since 2012 – because they are protected under EU human rights laws.
Mr Gove on Monday warned that the EU’s lack of border controls on the continent “actively abets terrorism”.
"One of the things that we can do if we else the European Union is control our borders and also control who we deport,” Mr Gove said.
“At the moment, unfortunately, the European law, which the European Court of Justice takes, has prevented us from getting rid of some people who are terrorists, or criminals who have been supporting terrorists.”
Mr Raab said: “This is yet more evidence of how EU membership makes us less safe. Free movement of people allows unelected judges in the rogue European Court to decide who we can and can't deport. This puts British families at risk.”

 

[Deleted member 1402]

Some news for you to consider Miss ViVi x @VoluptuousVixen
EU rules stopped Britain deporting murderers, rapists and violent criminals

A report last week warned that 5,789 criminals from overseas are free to walk the UK's streets - the highest number since 2012 – because they are protected under EU human rights laws.
Mr Gove on Monday warned that the EU’s lack of border controls on the continent “actively abets terrorism”.
"One of the things that we can do if we else the European Union is control our borders and also control who we deport,” Mr Gove said.
“At the moment, unfortunately, the European law, which the European Court of Justice takes, has prevented us from getting rid of some people who are terrorists, or criminals who have been supporting terrorists.”
Mr Raab said: “This is yet more evidence of how EU membership makes us less safe. Free movement of people allows unelected judges in the rogue European Court to decide who we can and can't deport. This puts British families at risk.”

Thanks for that, why the fook should we be left with these types of people?

 

[Admin]

Thanks for that, why the fook should we be left with these types of people?

Because we have no control.. As I've said many times, Brussels has the final say on a lot of things we do. We think we have control, but Brussels allows us to think that and laugh hard in their unelected positions with their rogue state.
Another reason why we need to leave.
Prisoners have fought our system hard for years about voting - they lost that right when they broke the law and got punished.
Yet Brussels have supported it and said we should allow prisoners to vote.
Oh and if you saw in the article, you'll note that the criminal numbers from abroad are on the increase, including terrorists..

And they wonder why home-grown terrorism here is on the rise.

 

[Deleted member 1402]

Because we have no control.. As I've said many times, Brussels has the final say on a lot of things we do. We think we have control, but Brussels allows us to think that and laugh hard in their unelected positions with their rogue state.
Another reason why we need to leave.
Prisoners have fought our system hard for years about voting - they lost that right when they broke the law and got punished.
Yet Brussels have supported it and said we should allow prisoners to vote.
Oh and if you saw in the article, you'll note that the criminal numbers from abroad are on the increase, including terrorists..

And they wonder why home-grown terrorism here is on the rise.

I was so naive to it all, I had no idea that there was so much control. I assumed it was just the European countries working together.
I had heard about the prisoners wanting to vote. Not something I agree with.

 

[Deleted member 1030]

This is a good website Full Fact - Full Fact is the UK's independent factchecking organisation
Unbiased, non-partisan and accurate.

 

[Deleted member 1402]

This is a good website Full Fact - Full Fact is the UK's independent factchecking organisation
Unbiased, non-partisan and accurate.

that's some bloody reading I gotta do, will take me best part of 12 months get through all that. Waaaaahhhh

 

[Deleted member 1030]

that's some bloody reading I gotta do, will take me best part of 12 months get through all that. Waaaaahhhh

Lol, it's good for a fact-check.

 

[Deleted member 1402]

Lol, it's good for a fact-check.

I guess so, but then I wanna read more! I'm gonna end up not voting at this rate.

 

[Deleted member 1030]

I guess so, but then I wanna read more!

That's the problem with being intelligent

 

[Deleted member 1402]

That's the problem with being intelligent

I wish I was!

 

[Admin]

I wish I was!

You are!

 

[BelleGlaschu]

I'm leaning towards In. But then someone will say something stupid and I swing back to undecided. I've not yet swung all the way to Leave. The one thing that might make me vote that way is the possibility of another Scottish Indyref. But then another Scottish vote for leave would strengthen the argument against that possibility.

The economic arguments are spurious from both sides. NOBODY knows what will happen. It was the same during indyref but I was sufficiently interested in the result to let my heart lead my vote. I'm finding it hard to be enthused by this one due to the amount of wallopers calling each other names on either side.

I was born in Germany. I might vote Remain purely because of that.

 

[Admin]

I'm leaning towards In. But then someone will say something stupid and I swing back to undecided. I've not yet swung all the way to Leave. The one thing that might make me vote that way is the possibility of another Scottish Indyref. But then another Scottish vote for leave would strengthen the argument against that possibility.

The economic arguments are spurious from both sides. NOBODY knows what will happen. It was the same during indyref but I was sufficiently interested in the result to let my heart lead my vote. I'm finding it hard to be enthused by this one due to the amount of wallopers calling each other names on either side.

I was born in Germany. I might vote Remain purely because of that.

Good information.. I'll be honest, I have been swayed to 'in' this week, because only this week it was released about our rebates.
Hmm being Scottish is difficult with out as it will definitely open the gates for indyref. And this time I think Scotland will depart.
I will still likely be voting out, but the mud slinging from both sides is clouding the debate and muddying the waters. Getting to me a little..

 

[BelleGlaschu]

Good information.. I'll be honest, I have been swayed to 'in' this week, because only this week it was released about our rebates.
Hmm being Scottish is difficult with out as it will definitely open the gates for indyref. And this time I think Scotland will depart.
I will still likely be voting out, but the mud slinging from both sides is clouding the debate and muddying the waters. Getting to me a little..

We need a 3rd option on the ballot paper: "Leave", "Remain" & "shut the fuck up forever you shower of self-interested gobshites".

 

[Admin]

We need a 3rd option on the ballot paper: "Leave", "Remain" & "shut the fuck up forever you shower of self-interested gobshites".

Haha couldn't agree more x