Benefits

Pearls · 4 April 2018

SuperKing1981 said:
Bad back ok... But getting all of this beyond food, shelter is beyond belief.

It is and his dear old Mum lives down the road who has worked all her life to bring up 5 children, she is lovely but sees nothing wrong in what he is doing.
Oh and with his bad back can lay decking and build a pegola in his garden, not cheap either. he needed it for the hot tub :rolleyes:

Deleted member 6684 · 4 April 2018

Pearls said:
It is and his dear old Mum lives down the road who has worked all her life to bring up 5 children, she is lovely but sees nothing wrong in what he is doing.
Oh and with his bad back can lay decking and build a pegola in his garden, not cheap either. he needed it for the hot tub

Shall not say anything more except to him to let him know that the lady next door does not like him one bit!!!

DiamondJoe · 4 April 2018

SuperKing1981 said:
Bad back ok... But getting all of this beyond food, shelter is beyond belief.

The Immoral Maze?

Deleted member 6684 · 4 April 2018

DiamondJoe said:
The Immoral Maze?

No it's not a maze. Why is luxury part of benefits? Benefits are to provide equal opportunity for everyone for bare necessities..Not for the types thats mentioned there or shown on channel 4

DiamondJoe · 4 April 2018

Baldricknkaz said:
Ok "The ones we've provided them to rent at a lower than average cost as opposed to the private sector, meaning less low cost housing for UK-born citizens".

Look I'm not saying all immigrants do this. I am saying our area is a 'hot spot' for immigrants/refugees to be sent to.

I'm not saying we shouldn't help these people. I am saying we need to build more houses to support an increasing population.

Also:
View attachment 51878

A graph from your attachment showing that foreign born people are living in more than half of social housing accomodation.

B x

I think you're maybe misreading the graph?

It doesn't show that foreign born people are living in more than half of council a/c, it shows the percentages of the total numbers living in various places, and the majority are clearly either owner-occupiers or live in private rented.

?

DiamondJoe · 4 April 2018

SuperKing1981 said:
No it's not a maze. Why is luxury part of benefits? Benefits are to provide equal opportunity for everyone for bare necessities..Not for the types thats mentioned there or shown on channel 4

You're getting confused - the idea of the safety net of benefits is it's drawn on the basis of need, not on a 'one-size-fits-all-and-I-get-to-decide-the-size' basis.

Pearls · 4 April 2018

DiamondJoe said:
You're getting confused - the idea of the safety net of benefits is it's drawn on the basis of need, not on a 'one-size-fits-all-and-I-get-to-decide-the-size' basis.

So how do people manage to take advantage of a system that is there for people who genuinely need it and receive £6-700 per week, I don't get this.

Deleted member 6684 · 4 April 2018

DiamondJoe said:
You're getting confused - the idea of the safety net of benefits is it's drawn on the basis of need, not on a 'one-size-fits-all-and-I-get-to-decide-the-size' basis.

That ain't what I'm saying. That's how it is...Now and it's not working and is being abused. Take Pearls' neighbour for instance. I think..An inflation based cap and regulated spend on food and shelter is what's required ...Not a one size fits all and I go on a booze and holiday spree.

Deleted member 6684 · 4 April 2018

Pearls said:
So how do people manage to take advantage of a system that is there for people who genuinely need it and receive £6-700 per week, I don't get this.

Agree.... Somehow it happens and this needa to be eradicated

DiamondJoe · 4 April 2018

There's a definite viewpoint here that people see abuses of the system and think that's unfair.

I don't think it right to extend that view to think that the majority of people on benefits are somehow undeserving.

And I might just ask if anyone who's seen these abuses of the system has actually done anything about it - benefit fraud hotlines exist for a reason - or have they just quietly stewed and let it all out on some internet forum somewhere...?

Pearls · 4 April 2018

SuperKing1981 said:
Agree.... Somehow it happens and this needa to be eradicated

Do people know people that can get them everything or are they doing something illegal, I would love to know how

Pearls · 4 April 2018

DiamondJoe said:
There's a definite viewpoint here that people see abuses of the system and think that's unfair.

I don't think it right to extend that view to think that the majority of people on benefits are somehow undeserving.

And I might just ask if anyone who's seen these abuses of the system has actually done anything about it - benefit fraud hotlines exist for a reason - or have they just quietly stewed and let it all out on some internet forum somewhere...?

Yes I have and many others and for some reason our neighbour moved out for a few weeks and then came back.. How odd.

Pearls · 4 April 2018

Saying that my family member with two new cars and a caravan isn't doing anything illegal and receives almost £600 a week in benefits and rent and council tax, they will openly tell you, they have no reason to work and won't as they get more money off the state. This is crazy.

Deleted member 6684 · 4 April 2018

Pearls said:
Do people know people that can get them everything or are they doing something illegal, I would love to know how

It's not illegal. They get cash and they spend on what they spend. I am saying it needs to be regulated on what they can spend it on.. as vouchers or bar codes .. hence I said immoral

Pearls · 4 April 2018

SuperKing1981 said:
It's not illegal. They get cash and they spend on what they spend. I am saying it needs to be regulated on what they can spend it on.. as vouchers or bar codes .. hence I said immoral

On the other flip of the coin we have a friend who suffers with mental health, she is very ill and has just come out of her third section, she doesn't handle any money, the council workers and care workers pay her enough money out of her money per week enough for her to pay her bills and buy food, the rest is saved for when she needs clothing or house old items. She will never live independent but I do believe this system works.

Deleted member 6684 · 4 April 2018

Pearls said:
On the other flip of the coin we have a friend who suffers with mental health, she is very ill and has just come out of her third section, she doesn't handle any money, the council workers and care workers pay her enough money out of her money per week enough for her to pay her bills and buy food, the rest is saved for when she needs clothing or house old items. She will never live independent but I do believe this system works.

And a classic example of what works shouldn't be touched

Baldrick · 4 April 2018

DiamondJoe said:
I think you're maybe misreading the graph?

It doesn't show that foreign born people are living in more than half of council a/c, it shows the percentages of the total numbers living in various places, and the majority are clearly either owner-occupiers or live in private rented.

?

You are quite correct, I misunderstood the graph.

20% of UK born people vs 20% of foreign born people (rounding up) would give vastly different numbers.

So for example (these numbers are chosen for ease of maths by me and are not actual representations)

20% of 50 million UK born citizens = 10 million.
20% of 1 million Foreign born citizens = 200 thousand.

So yes you are correct. I misunderstood the graph and I cannot state that half of social housing is lived in by Foreign born citizens .

However I can stand by the notion that if even only 1% of annual immigration (annual immigration was 230,000 from June 2016 - June 2017) is now renting in social housing, then we need to build a certain amount of new social housing to accomodate this population increase.

B x

DiamondJoe · 4 April 2018

SuperKing1981 said:
And a classic example of what works shouldn't be touched

I'd like to know more about the particulars of her care, tbh

Deleted member 6684 · 4 April 2018

Baldricknkaz said:
You are quite correct, I misunderstood the graph.

20% of UK born people vs 20% of foreign born people (rounding up) would give vastly different numbers.

So for example (these numbers are chosen for ease of maths by me and are not actual representations)

20% of 50 million UK born citizens = 10 million.
20% of 1 million Foreign born citizens = 200 thousand.

So yes you are correct. I misunderstood the graph and I cannot state that half of social housing is lived in by Foreign born citizens .

However I can stand by the notion that if even only 1% of annual immigration (annual immigration was 230,000 from June 2016 - June 2017) is now renting in social housing, then we need to build a certain amount of new social housing to accomodate this population increase.

B x

That is true too.

Deleted member 1030 · 4 April 2018

Baldricknkaz said:
we need to build a certain amount of new social housing to accomodate this population increase.

I totally agree. We desperately need more social housing. Decent, affordable housing.

Pearls · 4 April 2018

meandlis said:
I totally agree. We desperately need more social housing. Decent, affordable housing.

Nothing here, that's for sure. Homelessness is on the increase x

DiamondJoe · 4 April 2018

We tend to get lost in the anecdotal.

Let's, for the sake of the argument, say that I have my great aunty Mary, who's a bit of a character, she's 98, she swears like a trooper and drinks and smokes to this day.

If I was assessing my own prospects for health, or further, looking at the health of the nation, should I consider NHS advice, the advice of my GP that, on balance, I would do better to give up smoking and drink less and have a better diet?

The anecdotal says 'do what you like' but considered medical evidence says that if I continue in this way my life will likely be shortened.

Humans are, for some odd reason, more attuned to the anecdotal and risk missing the larger picture.

Lovernotfighter · 4 April 2018

meandlis said:
I totally agree. We desperately need more social housing. Decent, affordable housing.

The issue is though that if we built anywhere near the amount of homes we need, it would expose the over valued housing market (mainly due to lack of supply) and push many in to a negative equity situation.

Pearls · 4 April 2018

DiamondJoe said:
Let's, for the sake of the argument, say that I have my great aunty Mary, who's a bit of a character, she's 98, she swears like a trooper and drinks and smokes to this day.

You know my mother

Deleted member 6684 · 4 April 2018

DiamondJoe said:
I'd like to know more about the particulars of her care, tbh

DiamondJoe said:
We tend to get lost in the anecdotal.

Let's, for the sake of the argument, say that I have my great aunty Mary, who's a bit of a character, she's 98, she swears like a trooper and drinks and smokes to this day.

If I was assessing my own prospects for health, or further, looking at the health of the nation, should I consider NHS advice, the advice of my GP that, on balance, I would do better to give up smoking and drink less and have a better diet?

The anecdotal says 'do what you like' but considered medical evidence says that if I continue in this way my life will likely be shortened.

Humans are, for some odd reason, more attuned to the anecdotal and risk missing the larger picture.

smoking and drinking is a choice..Not something that taxpayers need to foot the bill for.. housing yes, smoking ..No.

That's the moral line

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