Bareback? Thoughts on it and why/why not?

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4 July 2017
4,745
2,654
City
Glastonbury
I was told by a sexual health worker in 2010 that the odds of catching HIV amongst men in London who have unprotected sex is 1 in 5, which is worse odds than Russian Roulette, but I've never been able to substantiate it.
 
Pearls

MOTM

18 July 2015
55,094
120,662
I was told by a sexual health worker in 2010 that the odds of catching HIV amongst men in London who have unprotected sex is 1 in 5, which is worse odds than Russian Roulette, but I've never been able to substantiate it.
What about swingers?
 

Therapon

Admin
11 August 2015
24,408
47,420
Ah, risk and the perception of risk...

Russian Roulette is a stable 1 in 6 chance of death - shagging without a jonnie does not result in instant death and, as the stats below hint, it is a more complex picture.

In 2015 (year I can get most recent figs. for) the total number of new STI diagnoses was 434,456; a decrease of 3.4% from 449,642 in 2014.

Large, disproportionate increases in diagnoses were seen in men who have sex with men, including a 21% increase in gonorrhoea and a 19% increase in syphilis. Although this may be partly due to increased testing, Public Health England said “high levels of condomless sex probably account for most of this rise”.

Young people are more likely to be diagnosed with an STI than older age groups. In 2015, among heterosexuals diagnosed, 15 to 24-year-olds accounted for 62% of those with chlamydia, 52% with gonorrhoea, 51% with genital warts, and 41% with genital herpes

Ok, here's some averages for number of times you'd likely have unprotected, penetrative sex before contracting something:

CHLAMYDIA
Living With It: Uncomfortable…then you take some pills and it’s gone.
Curable: Yes (2-4 Weeks)
RAW Score: 36 Partners
Condom Protects: Yes

GONORRHEA
Living With It: Painful. Hope for no pus. Then you take some pills and it’s gone.
Curable: Yes (within a month)
RAW Score: 179 Partners
Condom Protects: Yes

SYPHILIS
Living With It: Itchy. Then 15 years later you go insane and kill yourself… (no, seriously.)
Curable: Yes
RAW Score: 1841 partners (no, that’s not a typo)
Condom Protects: No

HPV (HIGH-RISK STRAINS)
Living With It: A nuisance. A few years of awkward conversations. Hopefully just one (painful) operation for women.
Curable: No, but it typically leaves on its own after a few years. There is also a vaccine for women and men now (get it!).
RAW Score: 4 Partners
Condom Protects: No

GENITAL HERPES
Living With It: There’s a good chance you already have it.
Curable: No, but who cares?
RAW Score: 13 Partners
Condoms Protect: No

HIV
Living With It: Expensive and stressful, but assuming you’re not African, you’ll live.
Curable: No
RAW Score: 1,250 Partners (significantly fewer partners if engaging in anal sex)
Condoms Protect: Yes

PREGNANCY
Living With It: Completely and irreversibly life-changing
Curable: Uhh… err…
RAW Score: 100 sexual encounters
Condom: 85% effective

Food for thought...

So the consensus is play safe and reduce the odds
 
Pearls

MOTM

18 July 2015
55,094
120,662
I think I have mentioned this before, I know of a guy that has HIV and openly sleeps with people without telling them, everyone knows about it, he's a huge player in the scene and has infected a huge amount of people, he simply lies to get his victims into bed
 
4 July 2017
4,745
2,654
City
Glastonbury
What about swingers?
Just 'cos one likes to fuck, doesn't necessarily equate to higher risks - indeed, older people are more likely to practice safe sex and swingers would, one hopes, be more fastidious and practiced in their behaviour.

BUT

The 'swinging classes' are a small minority of the population and all the evidence I can find (mostly newspaper articles) is anecdotal - ie, no broad statistical studies.

Short answer = I don't know
 
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Pearls

MOTM

18 July 2015
55,094
120,662
Just 'cos one likes to fuck, doesn't necessarily equate to higher risks - indeed, older people are more likely to practice safe sex and swingers would, one hopes, be more fastidious and practiced in their behaviour.

BUT

The 'swinging classes' are a small minority of the population and all the evidence I can find (mostly newspaper articles) is anecdotal - ie, no broad statistical studies.

Short answer = I don't know
I won't go by news paper articles, Ive seen it first hand how rife it is in some parts of the country, some areas I wouldn't go near, swingers have given a bad name to people who are genuine and play safe sad but very true.
 
4 July 2017
4,745
2,654
City
Glastonbury
I think I have mentioned this before, I know of a guy that has HIV and openly sleeps with people without telling them, everyone knows about it, he's a huge player in the scene and has infected a huge amount of people, he simply lies to get his victims into bed

Hmmm. :eek:

If you're having protected sex there's no law saying you must tell people that you have HIV - it's your choice whether you tell sexual partners.

However, in England and Wales you can be prosecuted for reckless transmission of HIV if you had sex with someone who didn’t know you had HIV when you did.
 
Pearls

MOTM

18 July 2015
55,094
120,662
Hmmm. :eek:

If you're having protected sex there's no law saying you must tell people that you have HIV - it's your choice whether you tell sexual partners.

However, in England and Wales you can be prosecuted for reckless transmission of HIV if you had sex with someone who didn’t know you had HIV when you did.
We went to a party with this guy, he had a threesome with his innocent victims, they were none the wiser and very young, he still very active on another site and still active everywhere else. :eek:
 
17 March 2017
2,729
3,982
City
Manchester
I think I have mentioned this before, I know of a guy that has HIV and openly sleeps with people without telling them, everyone knows about it, he's a huge player in the scene and has infected a huge amount of people, he simply lies to get his victims into bed
Well just like a criminal he should be named and shamed without a doubt he is committing effectively GBH or even Murder !!
 
4 July 2017
4,745
2,654
City
Glastonbury
I won't go by news paper articles, Ive seen it first hand how rife it is in some parts of the country, some areas I wouldn't go near, swingers have given a bad name to people who are genuine and play safe sad but very true.

It think the important point to get across is that STIs can, with the best will in the world be surprisingly easy to pass on - HPV in particular doesn't even respect condoms and is very common.

But in the vast majority of cases, STIs are simple to treat and do not result in any lasting damage. Know your body, speak to the doctor and get your MOT done. Nothing scary about that.

In people's minds however STIs have been conflated with the HIV/AIDS fear - hence the whole Russian Roulette analogy. But this is quite rare and also remains treatable.
 
4 July 2017
4,745
2,654
City
Glastonbury
We went to a party with this guy, he had a threesome with his innocent victims, they were none the wiser and very young, he still very active on another site and still active everywhere else. :eek:
That kinda sounds like a job for the boys in blue...? :confused:
 
4 July 2017
4,745
2,654
City
Glastonbury
Well just like a criminal he should be named and shamed without a doubt he is committing effectively GBH or even Murder !!
We have a criminal justice system for that kind of thing - not sure rent-a-mobs are needed
 
Pearls

MOTM

18 July 2015
55,094
120,662
Sadly people like this give a bad name, like @Admin just said to me, it's seedy, another we know of lays cheap black plastic bags all around her living room before a meet, wtf :eek:
 
4 July 2017
4,745
2,654
City
Glastonbury
I won't go by news paper articles, Ive seen it first hand how rife it is in some parts of the country, some areas I wouldn't go near, swingers have given a bad name to people who are genuine and play safe sad but very true.

It think the important point to get across is that STIs can, with the best will(y) in the world be
Just 'cos one likes to fuck, doesn't necessarily equate to higher risks - indeed, older people are more likely to practice safe sex and swingers would, one hopes, be more fastidious and practiced in their behaviour.

BUT

The 'swinging classes' are a small minority of the population and all the evidence I can find (mostly newspaper articles) is anecdotal - ie, no broad statistical studies.

Short answer = I don't know
Article from the Independent...

The great safe-sex illusion: 'Swingers' and other sexual adventurers
 
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Admin

Admin
15 September 2014
39,136
95,615
? not sure were you got rent a mob from ??
He's just phrasing it - we don't need a vigilante style outing or action here (such as naming and shaming) etc. That's all.
Not maliciously intended Mr G (y)
 
4 July 2017
4,745
2,654
City
Glastonbury
And then we come to PrEP (Pre-exposure prophylaxis), which is that new(ish) pill that promises to cut HIV transmission rates by 80-85% - which is great. You can take it, bit like the morning after pill, before/after an encounter.

BUT

It bothers me that you can just buy it on t'internet and it can promote really fucking risky behaviour because you've popped this wonder pill and you'll be fine, so just go on some chem-sex bender with 20-or so new friends for a few days and everything will be fine :eek:

This is why although HIV transmission rates are lowering among men who have sex with men, rates for syphilis & gonorrhea have gone up by a fifth. And then there's drug treatment too, but chem sex is a whole 'nother extreme ball game.

Most people won't do this kind of thing.
 
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Pearls

MOTM

18 July 2015
55,094
120,662
Not a swinger but I also know of a lady that has Chlamydia and never told her partners, made one infertile. These people are sick to the core and no she wasn't a lady really :eek:
 

Admin

Admin
15 September 2014
39,136
95,615
And then we come to PrEP (Pre-exposure prophylaxis), which is that new(ish) pill that promises to cut HIV transmission rates by 80-85% - which is great. You can take it, bit like the morning after pill, before/after an encounter.

BUT

It bothers me that you can just buy it on t'internet and it can promote really fucking risky behaviour because you've popped this wonder pill and you'll be fine, so just go on some chem-sex bender with 20-or so new friends for a few days and everything will be fine :eek:
Without trying to get back into the debate myself, with relation to this all I can say is = wow! o_O :palm: