Eu....stay Or Go?

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Lips_Pearls

Lips_Pearls

19 March 2015
23,755
64,856
SteLinda said:
Personally I don't like to get too involved in political debates as it causes so much tension and heat. The big trouble is at the end of the day we won't really get what we want regardless. As we have heard the government and opposition parties have stated all kinds of reasons why we should stay almost to the point of saying that leaving would cause pestilence and plague and bring about the end of days. Even if the nation vote to leave it's just a recommendation not a hard and fast decision. After all those same politicians will point all the reasons they said we should stay and say " For the reasons we stated earlier we're going to stay because it's in your own best interest and we know what's best". When you think about it if they believed for one moment we were going to vote to leave, with all the reasons we should stay stated by the government if they ever thought there was a risk of us leaving they would never have held the referendum.
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Oh agreed, and political debates would usually not be allowed, but this obviously is quite an important debate and will help, hopefully, ViVi's @VoluptuousVixen decision on what to vote etc
If the debate had flamed and become ott with posts or vents, then it would have been locked etc. But thus far a decent debate has been held. (y)

Anyway, people are too quick to forget... Abu Qatada deportation was blocked by the EU! This guy was filling mosques and streets with hatred. Allowed to hate preach and vile stuff too. Blocked by the EU.
Eventually he was removed, but they blocked his deportation.
Lee Rigby's killers sentences were delayed because of the EU. Our legal system and judges wanted to sentence them to life imprisonment after what they did..
it was delayed and delayed because the EU needed to decide whether we were allowed to issue a full life custodial sentence.
There's so many reasons to vote leave.. Sadly people also forget all the terrible things that have happened, and what the EU have done to prevent us from exercising our laws and rights to flex our laws against hardened criminals and religious fanatics, whom are not of this country...
They blocked us, our own Home Secretary - from deporting a hate preacher.
Just take two minutes to think about all of this.....
By unelected people running a rich man's club, who don't care about us and our laws, which have been running for hundreds of years.
 
Therapon

Therapon

Admin
11 August 2015
24,408
47,422
Took me ages to decided which way to vote but I cant vote anyway now as I'm away from home o_O
 
D

Deleted member 3411

Just had to post this piece of information as it's the sort of stuff that's flying around which annoys me. On Facebook somebody just shared a poster stating this. 'If you are undecided tomorrow vote to remain because if you vote to remain we can always leave some other time by act of Parliament, Whereas if we vote to leave and it turns out that everything goes wrong there's no going back as we can't rejoin'. I think the thing that this poster has not pointed out is once we've voted to remain we will have as now no power to stop the Europeans removing said parliamentary act and in doing so remove the right to leave in the future. We would have no say in it we will be told to stay whether we like it or not. This is why the 'Leave' people say we should go, because right now most of laws we ask for or given to us by Parliament are subject to approval by Europeans. Yes it's true we do get the right to vote in European elections but with so many Europeans it's a bit like saying 'Here in UK it's ok you have your say when you vote for the Green Party'. Although it's always possible that the Green Party would gain support in the future and become a majority party we could never become majority party in Europe and we will always be overruled.
 
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Lips_Pearls

Lips_Pearls

19 March 2015
23,755
64,856
SteLinda said:
Just had to post this piece of information as it's the sort of stuff that's flying around which annoys me. On Facebook somebody just shared a poster stating this. 'If you are undecided tomorrow vote to remain because if you vote to remain we can always leave some other time by act of Parliament, Whereas if we vote to leave and it turns out that everything goes wrong there's no going back as we can't rejoin'. I think the thing that this poster has not pointed out is once we've voted to remain we will have as now no power to stop the Europeans removing said parliamentary act and in doing so remove the right to leave in the future. We would have no say in it we will be told to stay whether we like it or not. This is why the 'Leave' people say we should go, because right now most of laws we ask for or given to us by Parliament are subject to approval by Europeans. Yes it's true we do get the right to vote in European elections but with so many Europeans it's a bit like saying 'Here in UK it's ok you have your say when you vote for the Green Party'. Although it's always possible that the Green Party would gain support in the future and become a majority party we could never become majority party in Europe and we will always be overruled.
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Blimey....
Yes you summed that up alright! Scary the misinformation..
 
D

Deleted member 1030

Lips_Pearls said:
Anyway, people are too quick to forget... Abu Qatada deportation was blocked by the EU!
.......
Lee Rigby's killers sentences were delayed because of the EU
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No. Neither of these things were down to the EU. The bastards who killed Lee Rigby had their sentences delayed while the judge sought clarification, from a panel of 5 British judges, as to whether whole-life sentence could be handed to one of them (the other got a minimum 45 years) - following a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, a completely different entity to the EU. It was the ECHR that also blocked Abu Qatada's deportation.
 
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D

Deleted member 1030

SteLinda said:
Just had to post this piece of information as it's the sort of stuff that's flying around which annoys me. On Facebook somebody just shared a poster stating this. 'If you are undecided tomorrow vote to remain because if you vote to remain we can always leave some other time by act of Parliament, Whereas if we vote to leave and it turns out that everything goes wrong there's no going back as we can't rejoin'. I think the thing that this poster has not pointed out is once we've voted to remain we will have as now no power to stop the Europeans removing said parliamentary act and in doing so remove the right to leave in the future. We would have no say in it we will be told to stay whether we like it or not. This is why the 'Leave' people say we should go, because right now most of laws we ask for or given to us by Parliament are subject to approval by Europeans.
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If we remain part of the EU, we would have to OK that change in law, along with other EU countries, due to the Lisbon Treaty - the same treaty that would allow us to leave.

SteLinda said:
Yes it's true we do get the right to vote in European elections but with so many Europeans it's a bit like saying 'Here in UK it's ok you have your say when you vote for the Green Party'. Although it's always possible that the Green Party would gain support in the future and become a majority party we could never become majority party in Europe and we will always be overruled.
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So, democracy doesn't work? I voted Green in my very first election in... er, 1987, I think - despite being from a dyed-in-the-wool Labour family that told me I'd wasted my vote.

So many people voted Green that year, that mainstream politicians started to take notice of environmental issues and began to act on such things as CFCs, recycling and petrol lead.

A vote is ALWAYS a voice.

Whichever you decide, make sure you use your voice tomorrow, folks (y)
 
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Deleted member 3411

@meandlis . I totally agree and I'm all for democracy and I don't think any vote is wasted. My point is that with English elections you can always get a majority if you get enough support, but to say that you get your say in European elections in the same way just not count as we can never have more politicians on our side.
 
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Lips_Pearls

Lips_Pearls

19 March 2015
23,755
64,856
I stand corrected thank you and you're correct @meandlis :)
Apologies for the delay, pretty busy with some things.
Lips_Pearls said:
We're voting out tomorrow. Make yours count guys. Don't sit back and not bother voting.
Whatever way you're swayed, in/out - make sure you vote. This is so important....
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meandlis said:
A vote is ALWAYS a voice.

Whichever you decide, make sure you use your voice tomorrow, folks (y)
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Exactly. Whatever way you go, you must vote. Do not waste a vote by sitting back and watching!
 
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A

Adam

Lips_Pearls said:
I stand corrected thank you and you're correct @meandlis :)
Apologies for the delay, pretty busy with some things.


Exactly. Whatever way you go, you must vote. Do not waste a vote by sitting back and watching!
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I agree 100%! I think this will probably the most involved election in terms of UK voter turn out! It will be close as nobody really knows
 
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Deleted member 1402

People keep telling me to vote anyway. Silly people.
I bet I don't vote and annoy everyone even more!
 
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Deleted member 1030

For those that are still undecided, try comedian Adam Hills' solution. Toss a coin, heads to remain, tails to leave. If the coin lands and you're happy, then go for it. However, if the coin lands and you are disappointed, simply do the opposite. :)
 
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Deleted member 3411

Ok been and voted so now I'll make the statement that clarify things. Is this referendum to decide whether we stay or go? NO. Go back a bit into recent history, the last election and UKIP are making inroads. One of their manifesto points is the demand a referendum on EU membership in fact thier whole reason for being is to argue for UK Independence, and a fair number of Conservative members and even MPs are threatening to defect to UKIP. So here's the plan the Tory leaders came up with. They hold a referendum and regardless of the outcome decide we will stay in Europe in fact as they're holding the campaign they tell everybody just how terrible and disastrous it will be if we leave so that after the vote so they can point at all the issues they raised and say we can't leave Look we told you it will be terrible if we leave. So there you have it we had a referendum and the decision has been made to stay even if you don't want that. And so now they have got what they wanted they can tell UKIP to shut up because you keep freezing for being no longer exists. This whole thing isn't to make a decision about European membership is a political act to defuse UKIP. For the record I don't support UKIP but I do support democracy and I don't find any of this very democratic.
 
Tallguy

Tallguy

17 June 2016
15
43
City
Cambridge
I think if we remain we could always opt out at a later date after pushing for further reform again, the EU will hopefully realise it's time for reform for every nation to preserve itself
We have a good economy at the moment why mess with it.
Not the normal in and out thoughts I usually have :)
 
Pearls

MOTM

Pearls

18 July 2015
55,094
120,662
Edna.....
The kids are ready for school, I quickly pop a few rollers in and out the door we go greeted by all the other mum's, children playing as we natter our way to the gates..
"Hello Mrs Smith what are you having for you're tea this evening" the butchers on the corner do amazing chops. "I'll have four pork chops please"
I walk back home chatting as I go, front doors are open and in between cleaning windows and washing the steps, ladies stop for a cig and a natter about anything and everything. "cuppa Tea" we do love tea and a gossip.

Children arrive home, husbands from work and tea is on the table, family time and after the men pop out side have a quick roll up or chew the pipe, children play hopscotch in the street until its time for bed.
Our lives of family and togetherness of our little street.

Children grow, marry and move leaving us with a care for one another, the butchers close and big stores arrive and soon we grow old, our little street still stays the same, yet I feel a stranger...
I now unlock my door, open it and see families of twenty or more squeezing in a two up two down, I look left and right and see mess dirt, noise is everywhere and I don't understand what people are saying.. I am alone now in this little street, no one drinks tea any more or chats about anything and everything...

Our little street has 52 years of memories and memories is all I have....
 
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